LoganLady

you the admin I suppose have the right and perhaps duty to delete it all. I admit I jumped in uninvited driven by desperate hopes of saving a couple gals from being verbally assaulted by a twit of a human whose life is obviously driven by self absorbed focus on minutia. I came here seeking a learned adviser -- I wanted help to fight a technical move or tactical one that very evil folks employed in their attempt to gain power over a 134 year old museum and a pittance of investments of the old organization. It certainly appears to be a heinous error of judgment on my part asking here for an answer, though a few have been at least light-hearted. Some responses were very helpful, some came crushing in peppering with vague questions, others with specific ones, another took offense, and still there are those personalities who feel impelled to make public display of middle school bully approach. As I said....never cared for joining....except where it really did count and when it meant looking at something and asking myself if it was bigger than me. Seems this forum does have all sorts...and Schmuel you should do whatever you think your title, duty, feelings, etc. drive you to do. Delete away since it is after all your duty as admin to rise above things and as Solomon would, determine the wise way and proceed. Thanks to SaintCad and Gary Tesser for at least lending an ear, offering help....and just fyi: we the good guys won. The museum is saved at least for the most part, though pillaging did take place. A legacy of artifacts has suffered some irreparable harm but will crawl back to wholeness and begin again, sans the few horrid folks who thought of themselves as more important than the objects left in our care. Thankfully at least most of the collection will be here after all of us are smaller than the tiny dot I end my dreaded presence with here.

Article VI Election of Officers Section 1 Th National officers of the {x} (except the National Secretary, National Inspector, National Counselor, National Field Officer, National Press Correspondent and National Senior Aid who are appointed by the National President) shall be elected annually at the National Convention by written or a printed ballot unless such ballot is dispensed with by unanimous consent. The three members elected by the National Convention annually constitute the Executive Board for the year, of which the Chairman shall be elected first, the other two members shall be elected collectively, on on ballot - numbered according to votes received. To be elected to an office in the {x}, one must be present to give consent or give consent through a letter. Section 2 An elected Chairman or member of a National Committee may succeed herself on the same Committee for more than two terms Section 3 The order of installation is: A. All newly elected Officers including the Executive Board B. All appointive Officers C. All newly elected National Committee Members These officers shall enter upon their respective duties immediately following their installation, and hold office until their successors are installed. National Committee members shall assume their respective duties immediately after their installation. The outgoing President, Secretary and Treasurer are to close out all convention expenses only. Section 4. Vacancies occurring in National elective offices (other than as provided for in Art VII Sect 2 of this Chapter) shall be filled by the National Council either at a special meeting or by acquiescence of the recommendation of the National President by two-thirds of the Council. Section 5. That the candidate for National Treasurer must furnish a statement of her bookkeeping training and experience in such work before the election for that officer is held. That a committee of Past National Presidents is appointed by the National President, approved by the Finance Committee, empowered to investigate qualifications of a candidate before the election of a National Treasurer. ..... Article XIII VOTING Each representative present at a meeting of the National Convention shall be entitled to one vote. Members entitled to representation by virtue of past office shall be entitled to but one vote. The ayes and noes may be required and entered upon the record at the call of any three members representing different Departments. ..... I'll type the article for discipline, etc.but 'term of office' - if the definition of the term is length, that is as described in each position, yearly for the principals, with Board members (museum) in positions of one- or three-year terms.

update: DD have been sliced and diced. Yay team a wonderful win for the good guys. I'll update here shortly. I can't respond quickly as I am trying to field a lot of worried white haired and knuckled ladies. This meeting is the National Convention described in the first part above. It's the "Supreme Power" and the biggest issue is the confirmation or removal of a self-proclaimed leader of the organization's very old and chock-full-o-artifacts museum. Dude that squatted at the museum - was supported by the DD, one of which was his wife. So many layers to this rotten onion. I still say my method would have saved a lot of problems. The meeting was a component of the National Convention. The component in which the DD laid into the National Pres. And Treasurer was a meeting of the National Council, and should have been dedicated to discussion (as I understand) of what subjects were to be covered in the next portions of the Convention. YipYip Chihuahua was hollering POINT OF ORDER repeatedly and finally presented (described to me) with great flourish two documents to the Council. Yip Yip is an attorney in real life -- and likes to Perry Mason folks and do gotchas. Her documents were false accusations - nothing of substance, but she managed to rope her buddies into say Yes yes yes boss...and the group snowed over the meek members sitting aghast at the drive by....and there was in the end a call for a vote right after the "charges" were read. No opportunity granted for the accused to defend or speak AT ALL. They tried to speak and to her credit the sassy 80 year old managed to get a few verbal jabs in. But the DD hollered I guess thinking that if they did the steamroll and removed the current Pres and treasurer by making some sort of lame charge and it stuck they'd not have to deal with any opposition the remainder of the conference. They did not allow any rebuttal or defense. The DD got to vote - making 2 votes to do some mojo against the Pres and Treas, and they orchestrated three pals to vote with them. So the council had a presence of 13 persons: 1. Dynamic Duo person 1 = wife of despot the group was trying to get moved into position in museum 2.Dynamic Duo person 2 = Yip Yip Chihuahua attorney with loud mouth (I still think I can take her) 3. Person of some sort of name I cannot recall - no personality, but follows Yip yip like a minion 4. Person who happens to be long-time member, aged 90, can't hear and goes along with Yip Yip 5. Person who is oblivious to everything and everyone but scared spitless of Yip Yip 6. Person almost carbon copy of # 5 but afraid of everyone 7. Person who has a spine and knows full well what's up 8. Person who is does have a spinal column if you look, and will stand on her own, but won't venture too far...but she's smart enough to think on her own 9. Person that is fed up with the lot of them and wants to send some to burn in ...... and would likely assist in transport if offered an opportunity 10. Person similar to # 7 but somewhat leans like # 8 11. Person similar to 10 12 Pres 13 Treas So when DD (1 and 2) read the documents, and immediately started polling, 1 through 5 INCLUDING DD voted to oust pres and treas and make charges stick. # 6 person abstained. Persons 7 through 11 voted abso freaking loootly no they will not charge pres and treas. Persons 12 and 13 - Pres and Treas - were refused chance to vote, and this after denial of opportunity to defend. Vote total was 5 to hang em, 5 to free them, one abstain. 2 not given opportunity to vote. I'm aghast that the whole thing took place, but I'm also familiar enough with the venomous yip yip to understand why folks might be bulldozed. Again, I'll get back to this and do my best to respond to your questions. I hope I've answered the question on what type/kind of meeting. If not, I need to crawl and baby steps are not possible. Job descriptions....coming soon and the terms of office....but I figured the info on how the Supreme Power of Convention was crucial info to include first.

Article IV Section 1. There shall be an annual meeting at a location decided by vote of a previous Convention. Section 2. Special meeting of the National Convention may be called by the National President, by and with the advice and consent of the National Council, and no business shall be transacted except that specified in the call. No alterations affecting the general interests of the Order shall be made at a special meeting Section 3. Consideration is given to again join with the (really long name of an old organization that now has several offshoots) for the Annual Convention with reservations as to the order of details. *I've only seen section 3 done once---last year

.....there's special provisions for who may hold offices at National level.....

Article III DUES Section 1. The National Convention will assess a per capita tax on each Department of { $ } per annum and on each National [name of subsidiary of National ] of { $ } per annum on each and every member therein, payable in quarterly installments, to be forwarded by Department/National [name of subsidiary] President to the National Secretary, payable to the order of the National Treasurer (who shall receipt therefore) on or before the twentieth day of January, April, July, and October. The amount of quarterly tax due from each Department/National [name of subsidiary] shall be determined by the number of members therein on the first day of the current quarter as reported by the Department Secretary. Members-at-large dues - see pg () Section ( )

Chapter IV National Convention Article I The Supreme power of the [ organization ] is in the National Convention. Article II Section 1 The National Convention shall consist of: A. The National President, Past National Presidents, Past National Vice Presidents, Past National Secretaries, Past National Treasurers, so long as they remain in good standing in their respective [ name of subsidiary group of National ] or are members-at-large, and National Officers listed in Article V Sect 2 of this chapter B. All Department, National [name of subsidiary group of National] and Provisional Officers elected and appointed C. Past Department Presidents belonging to National Corps carry their honors as long as they are in good standing. D. Past Department Presidents and Past National [name of subsidiary group of National] Presidents who have served a full term, or who have been elected to fill a vacancy and shall have served six months, so long as they remain in good standing in their several Corps. E. One delegate-at-large from each Department, Provisional Department, National [name of subsidiary group of National] and the group known as Members-at-large whatever its membership, one delegate for each ten (10) members and one additional delegate for a final fraction of more than one-half of that number in good standing at the close of the first quarter ending March 31. Such delegates to be elected at the Department Convention (National [name of subsidiary group of National] meeting) at the same time as electing Department Convention (National [name of subsidiary group of National]) officers. The Membership-At-Large delegates are to be elected by the National Council at the second Council meeting. Vacancies of elected delegates may be filled by the Department or National [name of subsidiary group of National] representatives present at the National Convention. The alternate-delegate-at-large shall be entitled to a seat only in the absence of the delegate-at-large. Should a vacancy occur too late to be filled by the Department Council, the first delegate present performs the duty of delegate-at-large. Section 2 That we count all members with their Departments or National [name of subsidiary group of National] at National Roll Call as all National Officers and Past National Presidents belong to a Department or National [name of subsidiary group of National] Members-at-large are counted as their own group. Section 3. Each Department or National [name of subsidiary group of National] shall have the power to decide in what manner the Delegates and Alternates to National Convention shall be elected, understanding always, if there be one dissenting vote, they cannot be elected collectively on one ballot. Section 4. Each Department and National [name of subsidiary group of National] shall also elect at the same time and in the same manner an equal number of alternates including an alternate-at-large. Only the above officers and delegates, or their alternates, shall be admitted to seats except as provided in Chap III, Art VI, Sect. 3. ....taking a break....

I have indeed read the Constitution cover to cover. In fact as the defacto web master (HA!) of this group of little old ladies I've typed a great deal of it into word docs for placement in the brand spanking new website not yet published.....did I "get it"??? Newp. I am simply flummoxed with the perceived rules that aren't rules and when I try to find out how things are going...try learning the procedures ... something changes--or at least I think they do. I'm most hung up in this procedural stuff. I understand the rule and regs and constitution, but I can't quite grasp why they seem to change horses mid stream and up stream and in the desert and on the grassy knoll. Example: The DD yip yippee Chihuahua hollers POINT OF ORDER each and every time someone gets to saying something she dislikes. Now again, my solution would be a tad more direct and barbaric but very effective. I don't get it that she can get away with the interruptions. I suggested to the Pres in a polite text message to use the gavel on a hard surface and that Chihuahua's head would do nicely. I advised she stand tall and tell these people how the cow ate the cabbage and shut up and listen and then they could ask questions. I am not at the latest meeting--as it is held during the time I am (Thank Providence) working. I'm getting updates from excited little old ladies asking MOI for advice. Poor gals are in for it eh? I believe there's so many laws broken by the takeover DD led by Chihuahua that they really should use their energy and time packing for a flight to someplace unknown. As I read what has taken place I'm in a virtual front row seat watching two people about to be audited by the IRS and certainly have some City officials, a Teamsters Union and untold others looking at them with sideways glances. Where's Hoffa when you really need him.... Anyway I appreciate any and all advice in how to use the darn RR book for more than beaning it off the hard heads of the DD and company. It is refreshing to have a good debate go on without personal attacks (or at least I don't HEAR the yip yips)

Hey where's the "Like" button? smiley face? Thanks Gary c. Tesser, aspiring Parliamentarian and I'll double the offer, pay $9 an hour if you'll just step in the fray and handle this. I'm not equipped to censor my own mouth...and unfortunately as I age this is a worsening condition. Fortunately as I get squishier and wrinkled most people overlook this and say it's cute or I'm sassy. But Chihuahua DD will have one more opportunity to yip yip I believe today. I was not an invited guest in the first proceedings held exclusively with a grand poo bah group of some name or other that apparently are of exalted station. While I do whole-heartedly believe RRs are exactly what is needed in life generally speaking, I've led an ignorant life thus far of these mysteries. I do believe that being said, I'm soooo glad to have fumbled my ignorant way into this forum. Seems my hunch may be correct that there's sumpin fishy 'bout the whole mess brewing. I will do my best to get at least Chap XX snagged quickly. Meanwhile I think I'll also polish my combat boots and sharpen the bayonet. The one DD is a scrawny little yip yippie and I bet I can sit on her whilst dispatching the chunky one.

I confess I'm very green at Roberts Rules and very new at this organization. I appreciate your input J. J. and Guest This does help me to mull things over. First of all, the organization is a very old one. 134 years old. I will transcribe the term of office for the President and Treasurer for you--but it will be in next post. I am desperate for help because this venerable old organization deserves better. Setting the scene: Once per year there is a National Convention. The National Convention is the "Supreme Power" (quoted that from the Constitution). the Convention is taking place this weekend. The dynamic duo (DD) who want to usurp power and move to take control are more obvious than they realize, but they have a team of minions who will slop up their bathwater and do their bidding. Both of the DD have previously served as President. Both are on the organization's Museum Board. One is also the National Secretary. The National Secretary DD Board Member is married to a fellow who wants to be the Museum Director. Museum is chock full of artifacts ripe for swiping. Not a lot of modern equipment has been utilized so ... I was roped in because I can turn on a laptop and figure out how to google. Now that we've entered the 19th century with these folks, I have learned the trust factor is beyond any reasonable comprehension. And in true female middle school mean girl fashion I witnessed exacting proof why I've managed to frump through nearly 70 years of life avoiding such pitfalls as joining organizations. I'm truly disgusted at this point to stomach the selfish self-serving, self-absorbed attitude of two divas that have little else in life to do than to create mayhem and destruction. As a woman I'm beyond angry the DD are this brazen. As a woman Marine (VN) I'm ticked off enough to take care of the DD and enjoy a nice retirement in a comfy 5' x 9' steel apartment with cable television, a bunk bed, and a stack of little debbie snack cakes. However I shall attempt to muster my inner happy space and try to figure out how to help my current president and my current treasurer. Who the ##{{ wants either of those headache jobs anyway? Actually the young lady (in her 40s) who is President seems to be holding her own. The one DD is a tiny little yippy-chihuahua type gal that won't let anyone speak so I'm not surprised that neither the Treasurer or Pres could speak. 'twould be an amusing show were it not for the fact the DD and hubs are now poised to swipe every bit of valuable item they can grub....and take the funds too. I guess asking here to see if indeed it is kosher for the DD to make all these accusations (all easily proven wrong) and call immediately a vote, and then the DD get to vote, but the accused - Treasurer and Pres, do not. Cripes I shoulda stayed in the Marines.....easier to deal with messes in that organization. Somebody raises a contrary head you just shoot em.