Mike Phillips

Thank you, JJ and jstackpo.

The Legal Counsel and Standing Committee Chairs shall be voting members of the County Executive Committee and ex officio members of the County Executive Board. Ex officio membership of any committee or board entitles such member to participate in discussion and debate, including permission to advance any motion allowed by this Plan or Robert's Rules of Order, in connection with any matter considered by such committee or board. However, ex officio membership does not entitle any such member to vote on any motion or other business considered by such committee or board.

RONR makes it clear that an ex-officio member has the same voting rights as any other member. However, in an organization, the legal counsel is on the Executive Committee, but she is an ex-officio member of the the Executive Board, and she has no voting rights pursuant to the bylaws. Is this case one in which the bylaws simply override RONR? I think so. [RONR (11th ed.), pp. 483-84]

Thank you, Mr. Brown. I will continue to avail myself of those resources as I continue on this journey! I have read both books you suggest, but my goal is to one day become an RP, so I feel the need to dig deeper. It's great to have this forum as a resource.

Already read it once. I'm getting ready to read it a second time. I'm going to do this!

Yes, section 13 (just as an example.) See what I mean?

Is anyone aware of the existence of an audio or video forum for learning and practicing RONR? It would be super useful to be able to observe the correct application of the rules in real time. I have to confess that I am having a hard time learning Robert's Rules. I don't know if it's the writing the style or what, but I'm trying to study a rule per day, which has turned out to be an overly aggressive schedule based on the amount of time I have to spend. Case in point: There are a LOT of pieces to Rule 13. Without seeing them put into use, it's really hard to visualize some of the circumstances where they would be applied. I'm really interested in getting the RONR CD, but with new rules possibly coming out in the not-too-distant future, I hate to spend the $75 and end up with an outdated version. If I go ahead and get the CD, can I copy and paste the rules, on at a time, into a Word document? Breaking some of the rules into bite-sized pieces might help me digest them. (I bought the loose leaf version thinking it was larger pages, but it's the standard version with the spine removed and a spiral binding installed. It's not very user friendly for me.) Any thoughts, suggestions, or recommendations you have will be appreciated. I don't have a deadline for completion, and I'm making progress, but I'd like to progress as efficiently as possible.

The handling of this matter does seem sloth to me. It seems that there should have been strict adherence to RONR for such a controversial topic. I tried to be on guard for weaponizing of RONR to bully the crowd, but based on the responses here, it doesn't appear that this was such an instance.

Our organization held its annual convention. During the business section, an amendment to the bylaws was properly offered from the floor. It was highly controversial. As it was toward the end of a long day, the body agreed to delegate action on the amendment to the Executive Committee, which met the following day, and then adjourned. At the Executive Committee, after a couple of hours, they had not taken up the amendment, and someone moved to adjourn. The motion to adjourn passed. What's the status of the amendment under RONR? The Secretary just told me it's dead, which is fine by me. The Executive Committee meets twice per year. Kosher or dirty tricks?

There is some excellent information in this thread. Thanks. The RP is the person standing at the podium/lectern, gavel in hand, conducting (or whatever) the meeting. The chairman is sitting at the head table doing nothing. Mr. Martin, your comments about the ethics of the RP are very interesting. While I doubt I would ever file a complaint against him if he violates his ethical obligations, I could certainly use the information to raise an issue with the organization after the convention.

RONR Audiobook

Mr. Brown, I neglected to mention that I've read that book as well. It's definitely helpful. I'm also currently listening to an audiobook, Robert's Rules of Order by Henry M. Robert III.

Our organization is having its biennial meeting in a couple of months. There will be about 2,000 people present. The bylaws require the organization to follow RONR unless the bylaws specify otherwise. The meeting is conducted by a Registered Parliamentarian who is imported from another state at a very high cost. They use this guy because he knows RONR to the point of being able to effectively weaponize them. He's a master at cutting off debate, running out the clock, and engineering an adjournment when issues leadership doesn't want debated are finally ready for the floor. Unfortunately, there are very few people in the organization who know RONR. So, I've been reading and studying for the last two months on a daily basis to at least make sure I understand what is happening at this next meeting. I'm not under the illusion that I will be able to effectively use RONR to counter the tactics of the RP. By the time of the convention, I will have fully read RONR at least once, I have already read RONR In Brief, I'm in the process of reading all of the posts here that I can, and I have given up trying to find helpful practice videos on YouTube. Can you suggest any resources I can use to prepare myself for the convention? I'd like to become a part of NAP, but I don't know if I will pass the test to become a member in time to get benefit. If there are any other books or audiobooks you'd recommend, please do so. I've considered hiring an RP to stand beside me and coach me during the business meeting, but I don't know if he or she could get onto the floor.

Gary Novosielski made the above statement in another thread, and it prompted this question. The organization appoints a committee to manage the bylaws and to make recommendations for changes and deletions. The committee delivers a final report to the board. Does the board have final say over which recommendations are submitted to the membership? I don't think the bylaws address the question.

There is an analog in intellectual property law. With a patent, for example, you can either license the rights to a third party or you can assign them. There is a big difference between the two. If you license the patent, the licensee acquires the ability to practice SOME of the rights of the patent holder. If the third party receives an assignment of the patent rights, he gets ALL of the patent rights to the exclusion of the patent owner. Most people have trouble understanding the distinction between the two. It's unfortunate to have to parse words to try to understand the intent of the drafters, but "any" does not mean "all". Words matter. If the interpretation that the designation of the Acting Chairman is correct, the organization has created a disaster for themselves. A celebrity can run for chairman and win (since people tend to vote for celebrities), and on the day she takes office, she can delegate all (not any) of her duties to a District Chairman (not Chairmen) and step back and laugh. That way, the organization is being led by the Chairman who is not the person for whom the organization voted.

That's a keeper, right there!

I notice that there is no way to put users who log in as Guests on "Ignore". Correct?

An organization is governed by its poorly drafted bylaws and then by RONR. The Chairman of the organization is accused of malfeasance. Rather than resign, she elects to delegate all of her authority to a District Chairman using the following provision: "The Chairman may delegate authority to the District Chairmen to act on his behalf on any matter." The Chairman's office is not vacant in that she has not resigned and she has not yet been removed. There is a procedure for removing an officer, but because the accusation is not a conviction, the Executive Committee is not yet ready to remove her. She is unwilling to resign. The Chairman's supporters have broadly interpreted the above provision to read that she can delegate all of her duties to a single District Chairman, which she did. That person is now referred to as the "Acting Chairman." The term "Acting Chairman" is nowhere in the bylaws. As I read the provision, I think it is appropriate to consider what the original intent of the drafters was. The provision does NOT say: "The Chairman may delegate authority to a District Chairman to act on his behalf on all matters." "The Chairman may delegate all of her authority to a District Chairman." If the broad interpretation is correct, it suggests that any Chairman at any time without anyone's consent can get elected and then immediately delegate all of her duties to any District Chairman. I will never believe that was the intent of the drafters. I do believe that the "Acting" Chairman is not authorized under the bylaws or under RONR. However, I'd like to have your input. The matter is extremely contentious within the organization. Since I'm new to RONR, I seek your input. This predicament may be one in which RONR cannot provide a solution to poorly drafted bylaws, but I hope not.

Ah, so it's a footnote to Rule 25. Thanks. I'm trying to learn how to look up these things.

First, I'm a new member to the forum, and let me say, it's a fantastic resource. The sharing of information here is very much appreciated. I'm hoping to eventually obtain registration, but for now, I'm a sponge. Second, a lot of the regulars here cut and paste excerpts from RONR. Is there an online version or a CD version available? It would be very helpful to be able to do keyword searches. Thanks!

Do the moderators ever approach Guests who post regularly but don't bother to set up an account?

Which rule controls this situation?

Once a new poster becomes a regular poster, is there a reason they should join the forum with an account? Is there a benefit in creating an account?