In response to my point of order Chair throws out Robert's Rules

[loose]

I raised a point of order on the Chairman for not calling the meeting to order at the time the meeting was scheduled to begin. He says RR is optional and is going to move to amend the Bylaws, replacing the paragraph that names RR as the parliamentary authority with:

"Rules of procedure shall be as follows (so far as applicable and when not inconsistent within these Bylaws, the articles of incorporation, or any resolution of the Board:

1.1. Meeting Format

1.1.1. Board meeting will have an opening from the Chair.

1.1.2. A discussion period will follow where all Board members will have an opportunity to discuss the issues and express their views. This will be a free-form discussion and be monitored by the Chair, Vice Chair, or Secretary.

1.1.3. After the discussion period, the meeting will be called to order by the Chair (or acting Chair if the Chair is absent) to conduct official Board busines such as approval of Minutes, Motions, etc. This section ONLY will follow Robert's Rules of Order.

1.1.4 After all official business of the Board is finished, the meeting will then be adjourned.

1.2. The above meeting format may be overridden at any time by the Board meeting Agenda that is approved by the Chair (or their delegatee) and Secretary without requiring the Bylaws to be changed. The Agenda will clearly indicate which part of the meeting is required to use Robert's Rules and which part does not. If the Board has no formal business to conduct, then there is no requirement to have the meeting called to order."

It's of course going to be hard for him to make a motion if he is running an illegal meeting.

Your thoughts, please.

[Chris Harrison]

I raised a point of order on the Chairman for not calling the meeting to order at the time the meeting was scheduled to begin. He says RR is optional and is going to move to amend the Bylaws, replacing the paragraph that names RR as the parliamentary authority with:

"Rules of procedure shall be as follows (so far as applicable and when not inconsistent within these Bylaws, the articles of incorporation, or any resolution of the Board:

1.1. Meeting Format

1.1.1. Board meeting will have an opening from the Chair.

1.1.2. A discussion period will follow where all Board members will have an opportunity to discuss the issues and express their views. This will be a free-form discussion and be monitored by the Chair, Vice Chair, or Secretary.

1.1.3. After the discussion period, the meeting will be called to order by the Chair (or acting Chair if the Chair is absent) to conduct official Board busines such as approval of Minutes, Motions, etc. This section ONLY will follow Robert's Rules of Order.

1.1.4 After all official business of the Board is finished, the meeting will then be adjourned.

1.2. The above meeting format may be overridden at any time by the Board meeting Agenda that is approved by the Chair (or their delegatee) and Secretary without requiring the Bylaws to be changed. The Agenda will clearly indicate which part of the meeting is required to use Robert's Rules and which part does not. If the Board has no formal business to conduct, then there is no requirement to have the meeting called to order."

It's of course going to be hard for him to make a motion if he is running an illegal meeting.

Your thoughts, please.

First make sure to defeat that amendment to the bylaws. Second, hopefully elections are coming up soon so you can elect someone who is willing to follow the bylaws.

[hmtcastle]

Your thoughts, please.

Defeat the proposed amendments and get a new president (not necessarily in that order). For the latter, see FAQ #20.

[loose]

First make sure to defeat that amendment to the bylaws. Second, hopefully elections are coming up soon so you can elect someone who is willing to follow the bylaws.

I was hoping you were going to give me some argumentation with which to debate. RR is leaving me feeling pretty powerless.

[Chris Harrison]

I was hoping you were going to give me some argumentation with which to debate. RR is leaving me feeling pretty powerless.

Raise that Point of Order that the bylaws DO NOT say that RONR is optional (check them first just to make sure you all don't have some goofy wording which does make it optional) and be prepared to Appeal any adverse ruling. In addition to FAQ #20 see Official Interpretation 2006-2 and this script for how to Suspend the Rules to get someone else to preside even if the Chairman is at the meeting. If you have the support of people at the meeting you are by no means powerless.

[Guest John]

How can you raise a point of order if the meeting has not been called to order? The most you can do is speak privately to the president. Or call the meeting to order yourself, if you really have a stomach for that particular fight.

[Kim Goldsworthy]

1.1.2. A discussion period will follow where all Board members will have an opportunity to discuss the issues and express their views. This will be a free-form discussion and be monitored by the Chair, Vice Chair, or Secretary.

This is backwards.

You have discussion after the motion is made, not "before the meeting is called to order".

You lose the opportunity to speak when the meeting begins? That is madness.

1.1.3. After the discussion period, the meeting will be called to order by the Chair (or acting Chair if the Chair is absent) to conduct official Board business such as approval of Minutes, Motions, etc. This section ONLY will follow Robert's Rules of Order.

That's okay.

Use Robert's Rules of Order during a business meeting.

NOT before the business meeting. NOT after a business meeting.

1.1.4 After all official business of the Board is finished, the meeting will then be adjourned.

I don't have a problem with that.

After all business is finished, you adjourn.

1.2. The above meeting format may be overridden at any time by the Board meeting Agenda that is approved by the Chair (or their delegatee) and Secretary without requiring the Bylaws to be changed. The Agenda will clearly indicate which part of the meeting is required to use Robert's Rules and which part does not. If the Board has no formal business to conduct, then there is no requirement to have the meeting called to order."

Ah!

So the part about "Robert's Rules" gets thrown out if the chair or the chair's delegatee (!?) says otherwise?

Madness. Stop the madness.

[loose]

How can you raise a point of order if the meeting has not been called to order? The most you can do is speak privately to the president. Or call the meeting to order yourself, if you really have a stomach for that particular fight.

Good point! I did manage last meeting to get him to call the meeting to order so I could raise my original point of order. He's onto me now.

I have asked the chairman to let me know when he plans to call the next meeting to order (after the non-Robert's informal meeting per agenda) and plan to show up not until then.

Thank you so much for your attention to my situation.

[loose]

This is backwards.

You have discussion after the motion is made, not "before the meeting is called to order".

You lose the opportunity to speak when the meeting begins? That is madness.

That's okay.

Use Robert's Rules of Order during a business meeting.

NOT before the business meeting. NOT after a business meeting.

I don't have a problem with that.

After all business is finished, you adjourn.

Ah!

So the part about "Robert's Rules" gets thrown out if the chair or the chair's delegatee (!?) says otherwise?

Madness. Stop the madness.

Yes, and the chairman uses the discussion period to air his opinions about what the board should do and why, while most of the group sits back passively and listens, maybe asking a polite question or two. Thanks for listening.

[Josh Martin]

He says RR is optional

Assuming the organization has adopted RONR as its parliamentary authority, the chair is incorrect.

"Rules of procedure shall be as follows (so far as applicable and when not inconsistent within these Bylaws, the articles of incorporation, or any resolution of the Board:

It is unwise to allow "any resolution of the board" to supersede the rules of order. This would permit a majority vote without notice to change the organization's rules. If the board members are smart enough to realize the full potential of that, they'll trample all over the rights of the minority.

1.2. The above meeting format may be overridden at any time by the Board meeting Agenda that is approved by the Chair (or their delegatee) and Secretary without requiring the Bylaws to be changed. The Agenda will clearly indicate which part of the meeting is required to use Robert's Rules and which part does not. If the Board has no formal business to conduct, then there is no requirement to have the meeting called to order."

This is the most dangerous section and probably your best shot at defeating the chair's proposal. This would essentially allow the Chair (or "delagatee" - I assume he meant "designee") and the Secretary to set their own agenda, decide that Robert's Rules doesn't apply to certain parts of the meeting, and decide not to call a meeting to order at all if, in their opinion, the board has no business to conduct. I would really hammer on these points. The assembly might not care much about Robert's Rules, but I doubt they'll react kindly to a proposal that severely strips them of their authority. I'd also point out that there are other, much easier ways to have a "discussion period" if the board really wants that.

I'm also unclear on why the chair's proposal focuses exclusively on board meetings. Does your organization have a general membership?

[loose]

Assuming the organization has adopted RONR as its parliamentary authority, the chair is incorrect.

It is unwise to allow "any resolution of the board" to supersede the rules of order. This would permit a majority vote without notice to change the organization's rules. If the board members are smart enough to realize the full potential of that, they'll trample all over the rights of the minority.

This is the most dangerous section and probably your best shot at defeating the chair's proposal. This would essentially allow the Chair (or "delagatee" - I assume he meant "designee") and the Secretary to set their own agenda, decide that Robert's Rules doesn't apply to certain parts of the meeting, and decide not to call a meeting to order at all if, in their opinion, the board has no business to conduct. I would really hammer on these points. The assembly might not care much about Robert's Rules, but I doubt they'll react kindly to a proposal that severely strips them of their authority. I'd also point out that there are other, much easier ways to have a "discussion period" if the board really wants that.

I'm also unclear on why the chair's proposal focuses exclusively on board meetings. Does your organization have a general membership?

Thank you. Yes, there is a general membership but the organization is in such disarray that only 4 people showed up to the annual meeting - and it's a city-wide organization!

[tctheatc]

At the risk of belaboring the point, RONR is optional in the sense that the bylaws which authorize it as the parliamentary authority could be amended. maybe this is what the chair means, seeing as he has his own rules of order to propose.

The idea of a free-form discussion in and of itself may not be a bad thing (for people to become aware of the issues that will come up in a meeting) but it should be done informally before the meeting, not as part of the meeting as he proposes. And of course, as Kim noted above, the right to speak and discuss at the meeting is still there. It's got to be.

[David A Foulkes]

I have asked the chairman to let me know when he plans to call the next meeting to order (after the non-Robert's informal meeting per agenda) and plan to show up not until then.

If I were you, and the way this President is handling things, I wouldn't trust him. If he says the "informal discussion" starts at 7pm and the meeting will be "called to order" at 7:30, for all you know he'll jump right into it at 7pm. I'd be there from start to finish. Just sayin'......