ELECTION AND INSTALLATION

[Guest mmm]

I posted info on what I thought was an imcomplete election and tried to answer your questions, Mr. Novosielski, but could not get back into the forum.

The 1st VP ran for the position of 2nd VP and won. After the election day, he contacted the PRESIDENT ELECT, not the current Outgoing President and resigned. The President Elect notified State Orator on what he should do. This is not protocol in our organization. The President Elect should not have been involved in this event. The outgoing President and the outgoing Orator were never notified of what was to come.

No one was notified that the loser of the election for the 2nd VP sposition would just be installed. It was a surprise to all.

The state orator is interpreting bylaws.....'whenever a vacancy takes place: She states that there was NO vacancy since technically the 2nd VP was still in effect until the installation. That is why they just installed the 2nd vp, loser, into the position. I always thought...a loser was never a winner.

But, if we want to bend and twist interpretations, I can say that there was a vacancy. At the time of installation, the old board is 'dismissed' and even for a few minutes there is a vacancy until the new board is installed.

The problem here is that this organization has been riddled with problem of by law interpretation for the past year. Half the club feels that this should have been brought to the membership and a vote should have taken place.

I still dont understand how a loser can then be put into the position they lost without anyones consent,

[Gary Novosielski]

I posted info on what I thought was an imcomplete election and tried to answer your questions, Mr. Novosielski, but could not get back into the forum.

We know that the CAPTCHA can be a bear, and we're lobbying to have it changed. Consider joining as a member, which is free, and will allow you escape the "GOTCHA". The election was complete if the 2nd VP did not immediately decline.

The 1st VP ran for the position of 2nd VP and won. After the election day, he contacted the PRESIDENT ELECT, not the current Outgoing President and resigned. The President Elect notified State Orator on what he should do. This is not protocol in our organization. The President Elect should not have been involved in this event. The outgoing President and the outgoing Orator were never notified of what was to come.

Do you even have an office of President Elect, or was this just the guy who happened to win the election but is not in office yet? In either case, he probably has no authority to do what he did, and his actions are null and void.

No one was notified that the loser of the election for the 2nd VPs position would just be installed. It was a surprise to all.

The state orator is interpreting bylaws.....'whenever a vacancy takes place: She states that there was NO vacancy since technically the 2nd VP was still in effect until the installation. That is why they just installed the 2nd vp, loser, into the position. I always thought...a loser was never a winner.

That's true, but even before we get to that, if she claims there is no vacancy, then there is nothing to fill, and nobody for her to install. Your society should simply ignore this nonsense. If, as you said before, your bylaws provide that vacancies are filled by a special election, then if and when the vacancy DOES occur, you hold your special election for 2nd VP.

But, if we want to bend and twist interpretations, I can say that there was a vacancy. At the time of installation, the old board is 'dismissed' and even for a few minutes there is a vacancy until the new board is installed.

What matters is what your bylaws say about vacancies, and what they say about the state Orator having dictatorial powers. If this resignation was not properly tendered or accepted, which seems to be the case, then he is still 2nd VP. The question is who has the right to fill the position if he ever properly resigns. For that matter, he can withdraw his resignation (or just ignore it since it went to someone not even in office) and resume his duties, or perhaps he would be willing to resign after you get your ducks in a row.

The problem here is that this organization has been riddled with problem of by law interpretation for the past year. Half the club feels that this should have been brought to the membership and a vote should have taken place.

Half the club is right. And the other half should be ashamed. The only body authorized to interpret your bylaws is your membership. Not your president or president-elect, or orator, or state orator, or Grand Obfuscator. What concerns me is that you sound as though all of this has already taken place, and nobody so much as raised a point of order. In which case, it may be too late. In that case your best course is to carefully read Chapter XX of RONR, and prepare to put your leadership on trial. But that will require getting the other half of your membership on board.

I still dont understand how a loser can then be put into the position they lost without anyones consent,

Neither do I, but I don't think you've answered some of the questions I asked you:

Is there anything [in your bylaws] that gives [anyone] the power to appoint under any circumstances? [...or is a special election the only way to fill vacancies?]

If he did initially accept the position at the time of the election, then whether he's been installed or not yet, he already has the duty to be the next VP, and if he wishes to be excused, he has to resign. Was that done? To whom did he submit the resignation? What body, if any, accepted it?

If the board has the power to appoint, and if a vacancy exists, then they can do so, but you haven't given us any indication that either of those things is true.