sealpoint Posted November 18, 2011 at 09:11 PM Report Share Posted November 18, 2011 at 09:11 PM Our HOA Board of Directors held a special meeting and voted to hire a painting contractor not to exceed $900.00. Unfortunately, the contractor did not finish the job. Now, we need to hire another contractor for more than $900.00. Should we have another special meeting and make a motion to Amend Something Previously Adopted to change the amount? Or, do we just meet and make another motion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert B Fish Posted November 18, 2011 at 09:21 PM Report Share Posted November 18, 2011 at 09:21 PM The rules at issue are that 1) you may not amend/rescind a motion that has been completed and 2) you may not pass a new main motion that conflicts with one still in forec.So it depends on what was passed. If that motion is completed (hire a painter for $500), you are free to pass any new motion as needed. If that motion is not complete (obtain painging contractor to paint clubhouse for $500) you need to amend the current motion.-Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sealpoint Posted November 18, 2011 at 09:32 PM Author Report Share Posted November 18, 2011 at 09:32 PM Thank you. So the action depends on the language of the motion, as whether it was completed or not completed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Harrison Posted November 18, 2011 at 09:35 PM Report Share Posted November 18, 2011 at 09:35 PM So the action depends on the language of the motion, as whether it was completed or not completed?Yes. Also, I am assuming that the bylaws specifically permit the Board to call Special Meetings otherwise they can't be called. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sealpoint Posted November 18, 2011 at 09:39 PM Author Report Share Posted November 18, 2011 at 09:39 PM Yes. Also, I am assuming that the bylaws specifically permit the Board to call Special Meetings otherwise they can't be called.Yes, the bylaws permit the Board to call Special Meetings, but I was also wondering if we could vote via e-mail, which is not in our bylaws. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trina Posted November 18, 2011 at 09:42 PM Report Share Posted November 18, 2011 at 09:42 PM Yes, the bylaws permit the Board to call Special Meetings, but I was also wondering if we could vote via e-mail, which is not in our bylaws.No, voting by e-mail would require specific authorization in the bylaws. RONR does not authorize any form of absentee voting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trina Posted November 18, 2011 at 09:53 PM Report Share Posted November 18, 2011 at 09:53 PM Our HOA Board of Directors held a special meeting and voted to hire a painting contractor not to exceed $900.00. Unfortunately, the contractor did not finish the job. Now, we need to hire another contractor for more than $900.00. Should we have another special meeting and make a motion to Amend Something Previously Adopted to change the amount? Or, do we just meet and make another motion?Regarding your original questions, I wanted to point that you don't have to decide ahead of time on the exact motion that you will use at a potential special meeting. If the call to the meeting adequately describes the general topic of the business to be conducted, the members, at the meeting, can determine if the previous motion has been carried out or not, and frame a new motion accordingly. They might also decide whether any action should be taken with respect to the first painting contractor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sealpoint Posted November 18, 2011 at 10:12 PM Author Report Share Posted November 18, 2011 at 10:12 PM Regarding your original questions, I wanted to point that you don't have to decide ahead of time on the exact motion that you will use at a potential special meeting. If the call to the meeting adequately describes the general topic of the business to be conducted, the members, at the meeting, can determine if the previous motion has been carried out or not, and frame a new motion accordingly. They might also decide whether any action should be taken with respect to the first painting contractor.It's the "complete" and "not complete" that confuses me. Because the painting contractor never finished the job, than the motion would not be completed? I'm concerned about the homeowners knowing that it was approved to hire a painter for no more than $900, and now, we need to change the cost of painting the gates. The cost will be higher. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Edgar Posted November 18, 2011 at 10:24 PM Report Share Posted November 18, 2011 at 10:24 PM It's the "complete" and "not complete" that confuses me.It basically means you can't put the toothpaste back in the tube. And you probably can't get any of the $900 back from the first painter so you can consider the action that the first motion authorized to be "complete" (at least in a parliamentary sense). So don't think of the next motion as "completing" the first motion. It's an entirely separate motion to spend new money on a new painter and new paint. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sealpoint Posted November 18, 2011 at 10:29 PM Author Report Share Posted November 18, 2011 at 10:29 PM It basically means you can't put the toothpaste back in the tube. And you probably can't get any of the $900 back from the first painter so you can consider the action that the first motion authorized to be "complete" (at least in a parliamentary sense). So don't think of the next motion as "completing" the first motion. It's an entirely separate motion to spend new money on a new painter and new paint.Thank you so much. I get it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trina Posted November 18, 2011 at 10:29 PM Report Share Posted November 18, 2011 at 10:29 PM It's the "complete" and "not complete" that confuses me. Because the painting contractor never finished the job, than the motion would not be completed? I'm concerned about the homeowners knowing that it was approved to hire a painter for no more than $900, and now, we need to change the cost of painting the gates. The cost will be higher.It really depends on what the original motion said.For example, if the motion was "that a contract be signed with XYZ painters, at a cost not to exceed $900, for the purpose of painting the gates," then the action (of the assembly that adopted the motion) is complete when the contract is signed. The fact that the painting isn't complete is a different issue, which may bring you into the legal arena. The assembly can't rescind the signing of a contract simply by voting to do so.On the other hand, if the motion was "that the gates be painted, at a cost not to exceed $900," then the action is not complete until the gates are painted. The motion might be amended to increase the total cost of the painting project.On re-reading, my second hypothetical motion shows some of the trouble that comes from using the passive voice, when it is not made clear who the actor is. When things don't go according to plan, it can be difficult to tell if the motion has been carried out. Hopefully the original motion adopted by sealpoint's organization was more clearly phrased. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert B Fish Posted November 18, 2011 at 10:29 PM Report Share Posted November 18, 2011 at 10:29 PM It's not whether the job is complete. It's whether the motion is complete. Let's say you decided to authorize painting for not to exceed $500. He/she painted, used up your $500 but the total needed work is still not complete. The original motion is complete. Ask yourself if you could rescind the motion. Answer: no because there is nothing left to complete.Let's say you passed the same motion. On the second day, the painter shows up drunk and the property manager fires him. He gets paid $100 for the day he did work. The motin is not complete.-Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sealpoint Posted November 18, 2011 at 11:35 PM Author Report Share Posted November 18, 2011 at 11:35 PM Let's say you passed the same motion. On the second day, the painter shows up drunk and the property manager fires him. He gets paid $100 for the day he did work. The motin is not complete.-BobAlthough the painter was not drunk, the property manager DID fire the painter. He will get paid for the day he did work. Therefore, the motion is not complete. Back to my original question: Do we make a motion to Amend Something Previously Adopted to change the amount? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Nancy N. Posted November 19, 2011 at 10:05 AM Report Share Posted November 19, 2011 at 10:05 AM Sealpoint, I think the fact that you are hiring a different painter and paying him separately make the issue less murky. Dealing with the second painter -- hiring him and paying him money -- is clearly a separate question from hiring the first painter. So new issue, new matter, new motion.If you were to pursue the dealings with the first painter, that could involve amending something previously adopted, but it still would not involve the new, separate motion to hire and pay the second painter. Even if the first painter has not yet been paid, and so you decide to use some of the unpaid money to pay the second painter, that wouldn't ...Wait a minute. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Nancy N. Posted November 19, 2011 at 06:35 PM Report Share Posted November 19, 2011 at 06:35 PM Sealpoint, ...Wait a minute.I might need a minute moe. Anyone else feel like fixing it, my guest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trina Posted November 19, 2011 at 06:45 PM Report Share Posted November 19, 2011 at 06:45 PM Our HOA Board of Directors held a special meeting and voted to hire a painting contractor not to exceed $900.00....Although the painter was not drunk, the property manager DID fire the painter. He will get paid for the day he did work. Therefore, the motion is not complete. Back to my original question: Do we make a motion to Amend Something Previously Adopted to change the amount?I think we're still not clear on what the original motion was. Was it literally, "I move that we hire a painting contractor not to exceed $900.00" as you say in your first post? That sounded like a paraphrase... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sealpoint Posted November 23, 2011 at 11:00 PM Author Report Share Posted November 23, 2011 at 11:00 PM Here is the motion verbatim: I move to accept the bid from Brian Hodges if he agrees to take $900. We haven't paid him anything, yet. There was no signed contract. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sealpoint Posted November 24, 2011 at 03:43 AM Author Report Share Posted November 24, 2011 at 03:43 AM Here is the motion verbatim: I move to accept the bid from Brian Hodges if he agrees to take $900. We haven't paid him anything, yet. There was no signed contract.The Board of Directors will hold a special meeting on Monday to select another painting contractor to finish painting our gates. Would it be appropriate to move to amend something already adopted or should we make a new main motion? Your input would be greatly appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trina Posted November 24, 2011 at 04:06 AM Report Share Posted November 24, 2011 at 04:06 AM Here is the motion verbatim: I move to accept the bid from Brian Hodges if he agrees to take $900. We haven't paid him anything, yet. There was no signed contract.The motion was carried out when the action of accepting the bid was completed. You can't undo that action, regardless of Mr. Hodges' unsatisfactory performance, or the fact that you haven't paid him. Those later problems presumably have to be worked out somehow, but not by modifying or rescinding your motion.The Board of Directors will hold a special meeting on Monday to select another painting contractor to finish painting our gates. Would it be appropriate to move to amend something already adopted or should we make a new main motion? Your input would be greatly appreciated.I believe this would be an independent (new) motion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sealpoint Posted November 24, 2011 at 04:34 AM Author Report Share Posted November 24, 2011 at 04:34 AM The motion was carried out when the action of accepting the bid was completed. You can't undo that action, regardless of Mr. Hodges' unsatisfactory performance, or the fact that you haven't paid him. Those later problems presumably have to be worked out somehow, but not by modifying or rescinding your motion.I believe this would be an independent (new) motion.Thank you for your reply. What a sigh of relief! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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