RICKSR Posted February 3, 2012 at 04:19 PM Report Share Posted February 3, 2012 at 04:19 PM On 01-31-12 Charges were brought against our entire executive board,President,1stVP.,2ndVP,Secretary, &Treasury for grossly violating our bylaws.It says in our bylaws under Article XII (Impeachment of Officers). Section 1. Any officer may be impeached for abuse of his or her authority or misconduct in the club or on the range by a majority vote of the membership at a regular or special meeting. Charges must be in writing and filed with the secretary at least two (2) weeks before a vote can be taken.This was done as prescribed per our bylaws read. The problem is that the executive board is the body who is empowered to do this and will look into this as prescribed per our bylaws and take action on the matter as well as make a decision as to what disciplinary action will be taken etc. 1.) How can they if they our the persons being brought up on the charges themselves as well as make any decisions in regard to it as it reads in our bylaws? Wouldn't this be considered a conflict of interest?2.) When this is brought up at a meeting how does the body/membership deal with this.i.e., do they call for an impartial number of members numbering the same as the executive board and make a decision and have the membership vote on it or what?3.) If the membership votes/rules to impeach the whole board then how do we go about appointing new offices and how long before we can do this etc.? It states in our bylaws that nominations and voting officers will be done on a yearly basis. Can we bypass this being we would be a club with no executive officers to run it or does RONR allow for temporary assigment of persons until an election can be held? Thank you for your time. Regards, RickSr. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Wynn Posted February 3, 2012 at 04:29 PM Report Share Posted February 3, 2012 at 04:29 PM How do you come across the theory that the executive board is the body empowered to do this? It seems that you've said the "membership" does it, according to the bylaws. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Edgar Posted February 3, 2012 at 04:35 PM Report Share Posted February 3, 2012 at 04:35 PM How do you come across the theory that the executive board is the body empowered to do this? It seems that you've said the "membership" does it, according to the bylaws.Perhaps (it's hard to tell with the awful blue ink) the general membership impeaches (i.e. prefers charges) and the board conducts the trial and punishment phase. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David A Foulkes Posted February 3, 2012 at 04:36 PM Report Share Posted February 3, 2012 at 04:36 PM How do you come across the theory that the executive board is the body empowered to do this? It seems that you've said the "membership" does it, according to the bylaws.The problem is that the executive board is the body who is empowered to do this and will look into this as prescribed per our bylaws and take action on the matter as well as make a decision as to what disciplinary action will be taken etc. Tim - it seems there are other bylaws (not quoted) that empower the board to review the charges submitted and determine if they are "valid" in some fashion, before passing back to the membership for a vote. I'm guessing here a little bit, but I think that's how I'm reading the above, and the rest of the post. Either that, or there is a conflict of substantial size buried in there.But of course that brings us into the magical realm of bylaw interpretation, so I'm going to pick up my magic pebbles, turn around, and head back the way I came.Or what Edgar said.Edited to add:I wonder if the word "impeached" is being misused here, thinking it removes someone from a position. Hmmm...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev Ed Posted February 3, 2012 at 04:46 PM Report Share Posted February 3, 2012 at 04:46 PM On 01-31-12 Charges were brought against our entire executive board,President,1stVP.,2ndVP,Secretary, &Treasury for grossly violating our bylaws.It says in our bylaws under Article XII (Impeachment of Officers). Section 1. Any officer may be impeached for abuse of his or her authority or misconduct in the club or on the range by a majority vote of the membership at a regular or special meeting. Charges must be in writing and filed with the secretary at least two (2) weeks before a vote can be taken.This was done as prescribed per our bylaws read. The problem is that the executive board is the body who is empowered to do this and will look into this as prescribed per our bylaws and take action on the matter as well as make a decision as to what disciplinary action will be taken etc. 1.) How can they if they our the persons being brought up on the charges themselves as well as make any decisions in regard to it as it reads in our bylaws? Wouldn't this be considered a conflict of interest?I agree with David - is there something from the By-laws that you have not stated? From what you have quoted it would sound like the general membership makes the final decision at a meeting, however other then calling the meeting what input does the Board have to do with the impeachment exactly?2.) When this is brought up at a meeting how does the body/membership deal with this.i.e., do they call for an impartial number of members numbering the same as the executive board and make a decision and have the membership vote on it or what?It would depend on the what the By-laws state? If there is nothing, then the membership would simply discuss the issue and then hold a vote. Hold a separate vote for each position just to be safe - and every person who received the required number of votes would be removed.3.) If the membership votes/rules to impeach the whole board then how do we go about appointing new offices and how long before we can do this etc.? It states in our bylaws that nominations and voting officers will be done on a yearly basis. Can we bypass this being we would be a club with no executive officers to run it or does RONR allow for temporary assigment of persons until an election can be held? Thank you for your time. You would have to hold another meeting to elect new members. If you had known on time, the notice for the first meeting could contain notice that ny vacancy resulting from any action(s) at the meeting would trigger an election for the remainder of the term. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Wynn Posted February 3, 2012 at 05:38 PM Report Share Posted February 3, 2012 at 05:38 PM I repeat... How did you come across the theory? The speculation machines are overheating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RICKSR Posted February 3, 2012 at 07:01 PM Author Report Share Posted February 3, 2012 at 07:01 PM This is how our bylaws read in regard to your question!Under Article XIV Duties of members. Section 6. Wrongfully violations of club rules and/or bylaw procedures for disciplinary action and/or termination of membership.A.Upon witnessing any violation of club rules and /or bylaws any member wishing to make a formal complaint must do so in writing and submit it to a member of the executive board.B. Upon receipt of written complaint, the executive board must hold a special meeting with all executive board members present within two weeks to discuss the validity of the complaint.C. If the executive board determines that a possible violation has occurred,it shall call a special disciplinary hearing at which time all executive board members must be present,along with the accused member,the member making the complaint and any witness)es) to the alleged violation. All involved parties shall be positively notified of the hearing either verbally by an executive board member or by certified mail with return requested. If the accused member refuses to attend,he or she shall be bound to the decision of the Executive Board.D.At the special meeting all persons having information pertaining to the alleged violation shall be heard. At the conclusion of which executive board shall meet in private to find whether or not a violation has occurred. Upon making their decision, the member shall be immediately informed of any disciplinary action.In the event of suspension or termination of membership,the member must immediately surrender his or her key.E.In the event of suspension or termination of membership,the penalized member has the right of appeal to the membership at the next regular scheduled meeting. If the member cannot attend the next regular scheduled meeting,he or she can make their appeal in writing. A 2/3 vote of members present we be required to overturn the Executive boards decision.My question stands. Since the Executive Board was the person/person's/officers who violated our bylaws how can they hold there own meeting and determine weather they did in fact violate our bylaws and rule on themselfs? Shouldn't the body/membership impanel a group of members or the entire membership and hold a meeting at which the charges are brought forth and discussed and action taken against the board or just bring it out at the next general membership meeting and then have the issues/matter decided by the membership at that time?The entire board acted in concert and spent the clubs money without permission and without going through protocol where it states in are bylaws that any expense in excess/ or over $800 must be motioned tabled and put into the membership news letter for any project and discussed at the next general meeting and voted on and approved by such before any project can go forth . They went well over that by spending $2900.00 which also states it had to be approved by the membership before doing so for equipment and then refused after a general meeting to take it down which was voted on and passed by the membership who voted to take it down. It also states in RONR that being they were unauthorized in spending the funds they are also responsible for paying back the club the money spent on the project! Please advise. Thank You for your time,Rick Sr. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev Ed Posted February 3, 2012 at 07:12 PM Report Share Posted February 3, 2012 at 07:12 PM I think you are confusing two different types of "members". You have quoted what the By-laws state about a regular ('general') member, not what the By-laws state about the removal of a Board member. That is where you have to look. Otherwise the Board will stay in place until their terms are completed and others are elected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RICKSR Posted February 4, 2012 at 05:15 AM Author Report Share Posted February 4, 2012 at 05:15 AM This is what i originally wrote,On 01-31-12 Charges were brought against our entire executive board,President,1stVP.,2ndVP,Secretary, &Treasury for grossly violating our bylaws.It says in our bylaws under Article XII (Impeachment of Officers). Section 1. Any officer may be impeached for abuse of his or her authority or misconduct in the club or on the range by a majority vote of the membership at a regular or special meeting. Charges must be in writing and filed with the secretary at least two (2) weeks before a vote can be taken. Also note, A.Upon witnessing any violation of club rules and /or bylaws any member wishing to make a formal complaint must do so in writing and submit it to a member of the executive board. There is no distinction between either or,it just says member as folows,C. If the executive board determines that a possible violation has occurred,it shall call a special disciplinary hearing at which time all executive board members must be present,along with the accused member,although it is refered to excutive board members we do not have two classes of membership, i.e., regardless of standing all members are equal and are subject to the same rules/bylaws. There is nothing in our bylaws that say different. That being we are all treated as one in the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trina Posted February 4, 2012 at 02:11 PM Report Share Posted February 4, 2012 at 02:11 PM It's possible that your bylaws are actually (perhaps unintentionally) silent on the process to remove a member of the board from his/her elected position. It certainly seems that there was an intent to leave impeachment of an officer (as opposed to disciplinary action against a member, which is what your post #7 describes) to the general membership -- your Article XII says that quite clearly. However, the writers of the bylaws may have misunderstood the word 'impeachment' and assumed it meant removal from office. If the bylaws are silent on what happens after the impeachment step (which is really just the equivalent of bringing charges), it seems the reasonable course might be to follow the formal process in Ch. XX of RONR. You could only do that to the extent that your bylaws do not cover this aspect of disciplinary procedure (i.e. removal of board members from office).Keep in mind that interpretation of the bylaws is the responsibility of the organization (i.e. the general membership). RONR provides some useful principles of bylaws interpretation on pp. 588-591. There must be a true ambiguity in the bylaws before interpretation is warranted. Whether a miisunderstanding of the word 'impeachment' on the part of the writers of the bylaws rises to the level of ambiguity is one question -- I would answer "no", but I'm not a member of your organization.What about terms of office -- how are the terms of office of the board members defined? If you're lucky, you (the membership) may just be able to vote the bums out of office (quick and relatively easy, compared to the Ch. XX process). See FAQ #20 for more information. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trina Posted February 4, 2012 at 02:31 PM Report Share Posted February 4, 2012 at 02:31 PM ...My question stands. Since the Executive Board was the person/person's/officers who violated our bylaws how can they hold there own meeting and determine weather they did in fact violate our bylaws and rule on themselfs?If that were the procedure that your bylaws spelled out, you would have to follow the bylaws (senseless as it seems). As I said before, I'm not sure that the process for removal from office is actually spelled out in the bylaws. That is for your organization to determine.Shouldn't the body/membership impanel a group of members or the entire membership and hold a meeting at which the charges are brought forth and discussed and action taken against the board or just bring it out at the next general membership meeting and then have the issues/matter decided by the membership at that time?You can't make up a disciplinary process out of whole cloth. Either do what the bylaws say, or, if they are silent about these specific circumstances, follow what is written in RONR.The entire board acted in concert and spent the clubs money without permission and without going through protocol where it states in are bylaws that any expense in excess/ or over $800 must be motioned tabled and put into the membership news letter for any project and discussed at the next general meeting and voted on and approved by such before any project can go forth . They went well over that by spending $2900.00 which also states it had to be approved by the membership before doing so for equipment and then refused after a general meeting to take it down which was voted on and passed by the membership who voted to take it down. It also states in RONR that being they were unauthorized in spending the funds they are also responsible for paying back the club the money spent on the project! Please advise. Thank You for your time,Rick Sr.Actual recovery of money may get you into the legal arena (assuming the board members don't hand it over voluntarily). Having multiple people responsible for the unauthorized spending also makes recovery more difficult, I would think. However, that's all out of the realm of RONR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Martin Posted February 7, 2012 at 12:50 AM Report Share Posted February 7, 2012 at 12:50 AM Keep in mind that interpretation of the bylaws is the responsibility of the organization (i.e. the general membership). RONR provides some useful principles of bylaws interpretation on pp. 588-591. There must be a true ambiguity in the bylaws before interpretation is warranted. Whether a miisunderstanding of the word 'impeachment' on the part of the writers of the bylaws rises to the level of ambiguity is one question -- I would answer "no", but I'm not a member of your organization.What about terms of office -- how are the terms of office of the board members defined? If you're lucky, you (the membership) may just be able to vote the bums out of office (quick and relatively easy, compared to the Ch. XX process). See FAQ #20 for more information.While it would certainly be best to clarify the Bylaws and to avoid the term "impeachment" (which is properly used in connection with discipline of governmental officials), I think there is enough ambiguity in the Bylaws that the society could interpret this to mean that the general membership may remove its officers (including board members). The term "impeachment" in the general sense actually refers to the process of removal. While it is true that in the procedure for impeaching an officer of federal or state government in the United States, the term "impeachment" refers specifically to the bringing of charges, it's not clear what bearing, if any, this has on the meaning of the term for a private organization with its own rules of procedure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Edgar Posted February 7, 2012 at 01:18 AM Report Share Posted February 7, 2012 at 01:18 AM The term "impeachment" in the general sense actually refers to the process of removal.Well, the first step in the process.But if, by this, you mean something other than the fact that the term is often misused, a citation would be appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Hunt Posted February 9, 2012 at 02:54 AM Report Share Posted February 9, 2012 at 02:54 AM Anyone have a link to the bylaws forum, assuming it's still around (I never used it due to the software)? They are probably able to be of more help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Martin Posted February 9, 2012 at 03:23 AM Report Share Posted February 9, 2012 at 03:23 AM Well, the first step in the process.But if, by this, you mean something other than the fact that the term is often misused, a citation would be appreciated.I appear to have misread something. Apparently impeachment does indeed refer solely to the step of bringing charges against a government official, and this is not limited to the US system.I still maintain that it is unclear what this means for a private assembly which has appropriated the term.Anyone have a link to the bylaws forum, assuming it's still around (I never used it due to the software)? They are probably able to be of more help.It can be found here, or in Mr. Foulkes' signature. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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