Guest Jane Posted February 10, 2012 at 07:01 PM Report Share Posted February 10, 2012 at 07:01 PM I have received the formal request to reconsider or to rescind the vote on a main motion, following shortly after a meeting was adjourned due to confusion over the vote. (I have another thread on this confusion, but I think I understand part of the issue better now). I believe those should be honored.In our case, voting on the particular type of main motion that was before us is both by people in the room, and by email ballot to those not in the room. No one can vote twice because roll is taken.My reading of the rules is that a call to reconsider should suspend our voting process, which in our case means to suspend the remainder of the vote by email. However I note that this call to reconsider was made just after the meeting disbanded.Here are my questions.Should the request to reconsider be taken despite being requested after the meeting disbanded (but within 24 hrs of the meeting. My reading of the rules makes this a bit murky. I read both that if the motion to reconsider was made after we disbanded it should not stand, however because our voting takes place over 24 hrs, that it should. Help!If the request to reconsider does not stand, should I announce a notice of such a request before our next scheduled meeting - or should this be a notice to rescind the vote. And in this case, I assume we must proceed with the email portion of our voting.I appreciate your help!Best, Martha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Edgar Posted February 10, 2012 at 07:57 PM Report Share Posted February 10, 2012 at 07:57 PM Best, MarthaYou might want to consider becoming a member of this humble forum, either as "Jane" or Martha" or someone else entirely. Not only will you avoid the hideous CAPTCHA code, your consistent (persistent?) identity will make it easier for the regulars to keep track of your parliamentary adventures. No salesman will call. You might want to join with a first and last name (they needn't be your real ones, of course), so that the more formal among us can address and refer to you as Ms. while the more familiar among us will have that option as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Britton Posted February 10, 2012 at 08:27 PM Report Share Posted February 10, 2012 at 08:27 PM Unless your bylaws specifically address the motion to reconsider, that motion is no longer available, even if the voting process is still ongoing. Once the voting begins, it cannot be interrupted. And, unless there is something that you haven't shared, that session has adjourned.At the next or any other session, reconsideration is not in order. At the next regular session of the organization, your options are to Rescind (or Amend) what was previously adopted, or to renew the proposal if it was defeated. Rescind/Amend needs a two-thirds vote for adoption if moved without previous notice. Whether you choose to give notice at for a Regular session is at your discression, unless something in your bylaws makes other specification.If the next session called is a Special Session, then the meetings notice would need to include language regarding Rescind/Amend or Renewal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trina Posted February 10, 2012 at 09:17 PM Report Share Posted February 10, 2012 at 09:17 PM I have received the formal request to reconsider or to rescind the vote on a main motion, following shortly after a meeting was adjourned due to confusion over the vote. (I have another thread on this confusion, but I think I understand part of the issue better now). I believe those should be honored.What does this mean? What is a 'formal request to reconsider'? Motions (such as a motion to reconsider), can only be made at a meeting, not after a meeting is adjourned. The degree of formality is irrelevant.In our case, voting on the particular type of main motion that was before us is both by people in the room, and by email ballot to those not in the room. No one can vote twice because roll is taken.My reading of the rules is that a call to reconsider should suspend our voting process, which in our case means to suspend the remainder of the vote by email. However I note that this call to reconsider was made just after the meeting disbanded.As I asked in your other thread, what rules are you reading that lead to the conclusion that a request to 'reconsider', made outside of a meeting, should lead to suspension of the voting process?Here are my questions.Should the request to reconsider be taken despite being requested after the meeting disbanded (but within 24 hrs of the meeting. My reading of the rules makes this a bit murky. I read both that if the motion to reconsider was made after we disbanded it should not stand, however because our voting takes place over 24 hrs, that it should. Help!RONR has no place for motions made outside of meetings. Moreover, a motion to reconsider is not in order once voting is underway. Your unorthodox voting process causes unorthodox problems, which RONR doesn't directly address. If your organization wanted some process for suspending the absentee voting process if a member calls for reconsideration, then the bylaws should have spelled out that detail. Once you (i.e. an organization) introduce absentee voting, the details pertaining to absentee voting must be in the bylaws... because RONR doesn't cover them.If the request to reconsider does not stand, should I announce a notice of such a request before our next scheduled meeting - or should this be a notice to rescind the vote. And in this case, I assume we must proceed with the email portion of our voting.As someone has pointed out (and I can't remember now if it was in this thread, or in your other very similar one), the motion to reconsider has some pretty strict time limitations in terms of when it is appropriate. It is unlikely that Reconsider will still be in order by the time you get to your next scheduled meeting. As for continuing with the email portion of your voting, didn't you say in an earlier post that your bylaws require that to be done within 24 hours after the close of debate? Have the 24 hours not yet passed?A motion to Rescind does have lower voting threshold if previous notice is given. It may be worth pointing out that the assembly may vote to rescind a previously adopted motion; it does not vote to rescind the earlier vote on the motion.edited to add: Continuing from previous sentence -- if the motion is not, at the conclusion of your voting procedure, adopted, then it wouldn't make sense to try to rescind the vote. If the motion fails, and the members want to discuss/debate it some more at a future meeting, someone can simply make the same motion again (no notice required). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jane Posted February 11, 2012 at 12:45 AM Report Share Posted February 11, 2012 at 12:45 AM Thank you everyone. Your feedback and some hours spent reading the rules directly has allowed me to sort this all out. I am very grateful for everyone's input!Martha Jane! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Nancy N. Posted February 11, 2012 at 01:57 AM Report Share Posted February 11, 2012 at 01:57 AM Before you leave, Martha Jane, if you wouldn't mind, please at least answer the questions asked of you, by the people whom you're thanking and grateful to. Here and in the other thread ("Confusion ..."). It shouldn't take you long.And while I very much doubt that you indeed have sorted most of this out, let alone all of it, we can't stop you if you want to drop it. So lots of luck.(People were knowingly disregarding the chair while she was patiently, laboriously explaining what they were voting on. And they want a do-over, on account they weren't paying attention! Martha Jane, how can you *think* of accommodating them?? They totally dissed you!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jane Posted February 11, 2012 at 03:06 AM Report Share Posted February 11, 2012 at 03:06 AM HI -- Yes, I am happy to explain the points that are left unclear. Please remember how it felt to learn these rules in a very short time frame. As a member of a voting body, one is typically familiar with a number of rules in terms of your response, but until you lead a meeting, many of the other details are not known to you. I had very little time to prepare to chair this meeting.Our group has many new members, so much of this was ignorance. I think the group members absolutely own their misunderstandings, yet my goal is to have the discussion needed to reach a good decision - and one that empowers those least empowered to speak. I am responding to other dynamics, which the rules are meant to help us with, so while we need to follow the rules of order, we also need to be responsive to an underlying process, and help people learn how to properly introduce their concerns, etc. This is underlying all of this dynamic.OK, so let me answer specific queries. We do not have specific bylaws that would allow for a reconsideration, and all those who point out that the rules do not allow for such motions after a meeting has been adjourned, and between meetings, are quite correct. I misinterpreted something I read at a site that explained meetings that have an online component (e.g., with our email votes after the meeting), and on more careful reading understand these rules do not allow such post-face to face meeting motions - only if this was requested during the meeting. So despite requests for such motions that I have received since our face to face meeting, these cannot be granted, and need to be made at the next meeting.I did note that reconsider has a time limit, and our meeting schedule will not conform to this, and so that is not an option for those wishing to reconsider the motion. However, I believe that both motions to 'rescind' and 'amend' are an option, and I believe that one or both are what will be requested when we meet. I have alerted the group to this possibility in my notice regarding the additional meeting, which is indeed a special session (although at a time reserved in case there was a need for such a session).Had those attending the meeting listened, or queried me instead of their neighbor in the meeting, all of this would have been avoided because we would have agreed to continue debate in the additional, special session. My intent is to allow the will of the group to prevail by ensuring there is an opportunity for someone to bring forward a motion that, if it carries, will result in re-opening of the debate.From all of this discussion I took away that (1) the first vote on the motion to close debate had to stand, and (2) the result of that decision is the triggering of the vote on the main motion, which we must complete. The place for new motions, and if they carry, subsequent discussion, is in the next meeting. I feel comfortable with calling for that session to allow this possibility to unfold.I do not think anyone dissed me - this is a friendly group, and like any group, where decisions are weighty, there is a good deal of debate. What is newer at this meeting is that there was a significant group of newcomers who felt less empowered to speak, and were unsure how to proceed. This is a mentoring issue, and one that can be addressed. To me, this was a significant learning experience for all involved - not just me - and I think it gives us an opportunity to talk about how we share in decision-making, and how we can improve our work together in future.So, I think I do know enough know to make a better decision on how to move forward from this awkward event. But if what I narrate here is wrong, I certainly welcome critique. Again, I thank everyone for their thoughtful feedback!Martha Jane Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Nancy N. Posted February 11, 2012 at 08:30 AM Report Share Posted February 11, 2012 at 08:30 AM Martha JaneEhh... please pardon my grump. It was a rotten day.Here's some thoughts.First advice. Get your RONR-In Brief, and read it. Now. Please remember how it felt to learn these rules in a very short time frame. As a member of a voting body, one is typically familiar with a number of rules in terms of your response, but until you lead a meeting, many of the other details are not known to you. I had very little time to prepare to chair this meeting.Heh. Martha Jane, when you get your RONR (in full), take a look at what General Robert wrote about *his* first experience chairing (on p. xl, Roman numeral 40): "My embarrassment was supreme," he says. "I plunged in, trusting to Providence ..." ... bylaws that would allow for a reconsideration ... For pity's sake, forget the rigmarole about changing the bylaws to allow reconsideration &c &c. It's not worth the bother. When "Reconsideration" is unavailable, or, often, unworkable, you can make do fine with renewal of defeated motions and rescinding/amending passed motions. Tell them to chill and let go of this one.Now, note -- in your RONR-In Brief -- that no one is allowed to speak a second time if anyone who hasn't spoken his first time wants the floor. This can encourage the least-empowered, perhaps. (RONR-IB, p. 29 - 30) (1) the first vote on the motion to close debate had to stand Well, it stands *now.* That's because the way to fix a parliamentary breach is by raising a Point of Order; and points of order have to be raised promptly, or it is too late (except for the most egregious, grievous violations; see your RONR-IB, p. 90 - 93; RONR- The Compendious, p. 251). Take from this also that it's imperative for the presiding officer to take the negative votes, and not stop with "all in favor" (RONR-IB, p. 24 - 25; more emphatically in RONR -The Pudgy, p. 45, top).(My grouchings aside, Martha Jane, you look like the makings of a superlative presiding officer. Maybe we beat you up pretty bad these couple days.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shmuel Gerber Posted February 12, 2012 at 12:44 AM Report Share Posted February 12, 2012 at 12:44 AM see your RONR-IB, ... ; RONR- The Compendious ...I thought these were the same. (If you need a dictionary, I hear that Gary Tesser might have one you can borrow, although it's coming apart from much physical abuse, which in this case is the same as verbal abuse.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Xander Posted April 1, 2012 at 02:21 AM Report Share Posted April 1, 2012 at 02:21 AM Rescind or Reconsider a vote - What is the proper procedure? This is not clearly addressed in the by-laws for our organization.At a recent meeting of my organization there was much discussion on an district assessment to each individual member. One member offered information about her knowledge of how one other chapter handled this situation in the past. Everyone voted and the motion was defeated. Many of us based our votes on the information shared by this member because everyone was not privy to the details of the situation. Several weeks later, new information was obtained on the subject and it was revealed that the member had shared incorrect information with everyone. How do we recind or reconsider the vote? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Honemann Posted April 1, 2012 at 11:17 AM Report Share Posted April 1, 2012 at 11:17 AM Rescind or Reconsider a vote - What is the proper procedure? This is not clearly addressed in the by-laws for our organization.At a recent meeting of my organization there was much discussion on an district assessment to each individual member. One member offered information about her knowledge of how one other chapter handled this situation in the past. Everyone voted and the motion was defeated. Many of us based our votes on the information shared by this member because everyone was not privy to the details of the situation. Several weeks later, new information was obtained on the subject and it was revealed that the member had shared incorrect information with everyone. How do we recind or reconsider the vote?You do neither. Just start all over again by making the same or a similar motion at your next meeting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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