Appealing a ruling when another member is speaking

[Matt Schafer]

It is stated on tinted page 41 (RONR, 11th ed.) that a motion to Appeal can interrupt a person speaking in debate if urgency requires it. Page 257, lines 29-31 state that it is too late to appeal once any debate or business has intervened.

1. Are these statements contradictory?
   
2. Can a person speak in debate and not cause any debate or business to happen?
   

[Burke Balch]

Far from being contradictory, the statements are complementary. Suppose that while a member who has the floor is speaking in debate, another member interrupts with a Point of Order that the speaker's remarks are not germane, and suppose further that the chair rules the remarks ARE germane. In order to appeal that decision, an appeal must be taken before the speaker resumes speaking (which would, of course, constitute intervening debate). Since, upon the chair concluding the ruling that the speaker's rights are germane, that speaker may resume the floor and continue to debate, a member wishing to appeal would need immediately to interrupt, before the the member entitled to the floor begins again to speak. Under SDC 3, such an interruption is in order-- as it would need to be in order for such an appeal to be possible.

[Matt Schafer]

Your example makes perfect sense, and this is how I understood the timeliness requirement for an appeal before I read those two parts of the text earlier this evening. Is it correct to say that "speaking in debate" as noted on tinted page 41 refers to a period of time when a speaker has the floor during debate, and "debate or business" as noted in lines 30-31 on page 257 refers to actual words spoken? This is about the only way I can reconcile the two statements in my mind.

Otherwise, would it be more accurate to say that the appeal may be made while another person has the floor but must be made before that person begins speaking, as several of the other motions do? That would move Appeal down to the second row of the table under the first bullet on tinted page 41.

Oh wait. I think I get it. The allowance to make a motion after someone has been assigned the floor but before that member begins to speak (as in the case of giving notice to make a motion, Objection to Consideration or Reconsider) applies only before the person begins speaking. In your example, the member has begun speaking, and the Point of Order interrupted. Therefore, the appeal must also interrupt, but the appeal must be taken before any debate or business ensues, which would happen the instant the member who has the floor starts speaking again.

Sometimes it takes a little bit to make things click. Especially at 1:30 AM after studying for about 10 hours today. Thanks for helping me get it.

[Burke Balch]

Yup, your third paragraph got it. Pretty good for 1:30 AM!