Point of Order Question

[Guest doug beilstein]

A Point of Order has been raised by a general Board member concering an action taken by the Ececutive Committee ( only individuals with voting privilage ) during an EC only meeting where the rest of the board was not in meeting.

Question ..... can this non-voting member raise this point of order?

[Chris Harrison]

Where was the Point of Order raised? At the EC meeting, at the Board meeting, some other meeting? Was this person a member of that particular body?

[Guest Doug Beilstein]

The Point of Order was rasied after the result of the EC action ( vote ) was sent to a standing committe chair. The perso who raised the question is a general Board member, not an executive board Member. The general Board was not in session at this time.

[Chris Harrison]

It is still unclear which body was meeting when the Point was raised and if this Board member is a member of that body. Can you please clarify?

[Guest Doug Beilstein]

I'm sorry Only the EC was meeting ( on-line ) the other parts of the general Board were not present ( on-line )

the person that brought the Point of Order is not on the EC ( the voting portion of the Board ) and was not present at this meeting ( on-line ) and raised this Point of Order only after finding out the result of a vote taken by the EC. The action taken by the EC ( vote ) was relayed to a sitting board member via e-mail who is a committee chair ( official member of the Board ). That committee chair then informed another sitting board member ( but not a member of the EC ) who then ( the non committe chair ) then raised the Point of Order. thanks for your help here Chris.

[Trina]

I'm sorry Only the EC was meeting ( on-line ) the other parts of the general Board were not present ( on-line )

the person that brought the Point of Order is not on the EC ( the voting portion of the Board ) and was not present at this meeting ( on-line ) and raised this Point of Order only after finding out the result of a vote taken by the EC. The action taken by the EC ( vote ) was relayed to a sitting board member via e-mail who is a committee chair ( official member of the Board ). That committee chair then informed another sitting board member ( but not a member of the EC ) who then ( the non committe chair ) then raised the Point of Order. thanks for your help here Chris.

Thanks for the clarification on who did what. However, it appears that the board member who raised the 'Point of Order' has not actually done so yet, since points of order can only be raised at a meeting. I think that's what Chris was trying to get at.

Since the point of order (if and when it is actually made) would be made well after the meeting of the executive committee, it will only be relevant if it is addressing a continuing breach (a serious error in procedure of the sort described on p. 251, RONR 11th ed.). All other points of order must be raised promptly at the time of the violation. It's already way too late for most points of order.

Getting back to your original question, as to whether a board member can ever raise a point of order about a vote taken during an EC meeting, the answer depends (I think) on what type of continuing breach is being alleged. In general, it is not appropriate to raise a point of order about some other assembly's violation of the rules (the EC is a different assembly than the board).

However, even if a point of order isn't appropriate, that doesn't mean the board has no authority to do anything about the EC vote. See Official Interpretation 2006-13 for a somewhat related discussion, involving the relative authority of the general membership vis-a-vis the board. I'm making an assumption, though, that your EC is like the executive committee as described in RONR (essentially a board within a board). If the allocation of authority is different in your organization -- i.e. if the board is not a superior body with respect to the executive committee -- then the board may not be in a position to do anything about the EC action.

As a side note, I assume these online meetings of the EC are authorized by the bylaws, or by statute (they are not valid otherwise).

[David A Foulkes]

"When a member thinks that the rules of the assembly are being violated, he can make a Point of Order...." (RONR 11th Ed. p. 247 ll. 3-4)

What exactly was the Point of Order raised? That is, what rule(s) were violated by the EC?

[Guest Doug Beilstein]

David the Point of Order a motion made by an EC member ( only voting portion of the ) Board during and on-line EC meeting and the rest of the board was not in attendance ( on-line) was invalid as it is in conflict with the bylaws and the authority of the EC officers as described by those bylaws.

This action by the EC reverses a decision made by a chairperson of a standing committee.

Does the fact that the individual that has raised the Point of Order is doing so after the action ( vote ) has been taken and that person ( allowed no vote - non voting part of the board ) was not at the meeting ( as well as all other non-voting members of the board ) ?

thanks you for your help