violation of special meeting

[Guest Wendy]

My association has posted on email two questions - the first was asking people to vote in email to do a fundraiser, is this a violation because they did not call a special meeting and did not meet quorum?

they sent out a second email asking for a vote to spend funds, is this a violation of not having a special meeting to voet to spend funds? Any help would be appreciatetd. Also as the treasurer can I withhold funds because of the violation?

[Trina]

Votes by e-mail cannot be taken unless this manner of voting is specifically authorized in the bylaws. All forms of absentee voting are, plain and simple, prohibited by the rules in RONR.

[jstackpo]

Important question:

Do your bylaws authorize votes -- decisions -- via e-mail, which is a form of absentee voting. And absentee voting is a clear no-no -- p. 423.

If not, then neither of the two decisions are valid, and you had better indeed "withhold funds" if you value your skin!!!

If the bylaws do authorize e-voting, then those bylaws should have additional rules/details about how it is done, including a definition of an "e-quorum", &c. (I'll bet they don't!)

[Guest Guest]

Important question:

Do your bylaws authorize votes -- decisions -- via e-mail, which is a form of absentee voting. And absentee voting is a clear no-no -- p. 423.

If not, then neither of the two decisions are valid, and you had better indeed "withhold funds" if you value your skin!!!

If the bylaws do authorize e-voting, then those bylaws should have additional rules/details about how it is done, including a definition of an "e-quorum", &c. (I'll bet they don't!)

What do I do to advise them they are in violation of the bylaws, and how do I state that i am going to withhold funds from them?

[jstackpo]

Next meeting, if "they" ask "Where's the Money?" tell them what we here told you. You aren't gonna write checks without proper authorization.

If the chair, or somebody, makes a motion to "require" you to cough up the big bucks, that may make it all OK since the authorization to spend the money is being granted in a proper meeting.

[Guest Guest]

Next meeting, if "they" ask "Where's the Money?" tell them what we here told you. You aren't gonna write checks without proper authorization.

If the chair, or somebody, makes a motion to "require" you to cough up the big bucks, that may make it all OK since the authorization to spend the money is being granted in a proper meeting.

This event will hapen before the next meeting happens, This is what they did:

1. they posted by email that they had an opertunity to do a fund raiser and asked for a vote by email who was interested in doing this fundraiser. (about one and a half weeks laterthey had ameeting)

2. after the above posting about one and a half weeks later they had a meeting- a monthly meeting which was posted to all members two days before the meeting, a quorum was not meet so they could not vote to spend funds.

3. They posted on email requesting a vote to spend funds for the event a few days after the monthly meeting.

All three are in violation but how do I present the violation to the group before this event and tell them that they will not be getting any funds from me?n As I hold all the funds for the Association,

[Guest Edgar]

. . . is this a violation of not having a special meeting to vote to spend funds?

RONR does not require that a special meeting be held in order to vote on spending money. Such a decision can be made at any regular meeting. So it could be a special meeting or a regular meeting but, as noted, it must be at a meeting, in person, not just an exchange of e-mail.

[Guest Edgar]

. . . how do I present the violation to the group before this event and tell them that they will not be getting any funds from me?

If there won't be a meeting before the event, you can't. But you can, and, I think, should, notify those you think have "a need to know".

[Trina]

What kind of numbers were seen on the e-mail 'votes'? (This doesn't make it right of course; however, it may help gauge the strength of support for the action. If you are even considering disbursing the funds, at your own personal risk, you should evaluate whether your action is likely to be ratified later at a proper meeting).

Any chance of calling a special meeting prior to the event date, to do things right?

You would certainly be correct in refusing to disburse organization funds based on the situation you describe. Of course, if your organization is anything like the small (and fairly informal) groups I belong to, there are people will not be happy with you for thwarting the 'vote' that they think they have conducted on the issue.

Perhaps some other member, who is convinced of the propriety of the e-mail decisions, will write a personal check to cover the costs of the event (after all, if they are sure the decisions are kosher, they can be sure of being reimbursed later from the organization's treasury, right?).

And, a citation, in hopes that it may be useful to you in discussing this with other members:

'since it is a fundamental principle of parliamentary law that the right to vote is limited to the members of an organization who are actually present at the time the vote is taken in a regular or properly called meeting, the rules cannot be suspended so as to give the right to vote to a nonmember, or to authorize absentee voting.' (RONR 11th ed. p. 263 ll. 18-24)

[Guest Guest]

I have now writen a formal notice to all members stating what the violation of procedure of the bylaws were and that all votes are not valid, I did advise in my letter that the board should post a meeting ASAP. I have given them a way out, but now I am getting the bad coments and rebutal from members, how can I as one of the board members enforce rules if no one wants to listen to them? this is crazy... Do I ask for abritration? or something else?

[Guest Nancy N.]

... how can I as one of the board members enforce rules if no one wants to listen to them? this is crazy...

We do get asked about this problem a lot. You have my sympathy (and, I'm sure, that of others). I'm sure you knew that if you stuck to your guns, you would catch some flak. Your problem now is that darnit, flak HURTS!

You might point your critics in the direction of those who began all this illegal e-mail voting in the first place. Point out, don't shoot the messenger.

(I suspect that some of the above is not in Robert's Rules, gulp.)

[Trina]

I have now writen a formal notice to all members stating what the violation of procedure of the bylaws were and that all votes are not valid, I did advise in my letter that the board should post a meeting ASAP. I have given them a way out, but now I am getting the bad coments and rebutal from members, how can I as one of the board members enforce rules if no one wants to listen to them? this is crazy... Do I ask for abritration? or something else?

You certainly have my sympathy. This can be a lousy situation, and, especially if the 'conversation' is going on by e-mail, people may say things they would not venture to say face to face. This, incidentally, is one good reason for making decisions at in-person meetings.

The rules of parliamentary procedure do not give you, as one board member, the power to enforce rules against the will of the majority. However, you, as treasurer, have decisions you can make about the handling of the funds entrusted to you by the organization.

[David A Foulkes]

how can I as one of the board members enforce rules if no one wants to listen to them?

Short answer - you can't.