Ballot voting

[Guest b vanriette]

As a follow up to my post on December 17th. Our sporting club is to vote, at the spring meeting, for the format of a competition tot be held in the following year. Usually there are several proposals, each made into a motion that if seconded then is debated. Once the debate is over each of the motions is written on a dry-erase board. A vote is then taken with the format receiving the most (not majority) votes passing. I think that this procedure is not in order. I think that we should be creating a ballot for voting, but i am unsure how to create a ballot vote from motions received at the meeting. I also think that one of the formats on the ballot must receive a majority vote to pass, but what if none do?. Thanks.

[jstackpo]

Yeah, with a multiple choice a ballot is one way - no guarantee that a majority will be obtained by any of the options, however. Unless your bylaws allow a "plurality vote" - i.e., most votes wins - anything less than a majority results in "no decision" and you just try again. You could also adopt a Special Rule of Order (requires advance notice and a 2/3 vote) allowing for a plurality vote on the options.

As for "creating" a ballot, move that the selection of the options be voted on by ballot - a majority decides whether to go to the trouble of doing that. Then just pass out blank paper and ask the members to write in their choice - perhaps by number from the visible dry-erase board. This is equivalent to an election of officers.

Another (more or less equivalent) method is to use "filling a blank" see RONR, p. 162 for the details. It can involve either voice votes or (repeated) ballot votes on each of your options.

[Dan Honemann]

As a follow up to my post on December 17th. Our sporting club is to vote, at the spring meeting, for the format of a competition tot be held in the following year. Usually there are several proposals, each made into a motion that if seconded then is debated. Once the debate is over each of the motions is written on a dry-erase board. A vote is then taken with the format receiving the most (not majority) votes passing. I think that this procedure is not in order. I think that we should be creating a ballot for voting, but i am unsure how to create a ballot vote from motions received at the meeting. I also think that one of the formats on the ballot must receive a majority vote to pass, but what if none do?. Thanks.

This business about there being several proposals, each made into a motion which, if seconded, is then debated, needs to be explained a bit more. It appears, on the face of it, to be totally improper.

[Guest b vanriette]

My understanding is that only one motion is to be on on the floor at a time, and that is why I feel our procedure is out of order. What i am trying to determine is how to create a ballot for multiple format choices; those format choices all arising at the meeting. Our members are notified in advance that choosing a format will be on the agenda, but formats are not required to be submitted in advance. So at the meeting the agenda item "Format selection" is brought up. Usually there are several formats that members want considered. Assume a member motions to use format "A", it is seconded, and discussion follows. How do the members know it they wish to vote for or against format "A" if they do not know what if any other formats will be proposed?

[Dan Honemann]

My understanding is that only one motion is to be on on the floor at a time, and that is why I feel our procedure is out of order. What i am trying to determine is how to create a ballot for multiple format choices; those format choices all arising at the meeting. Our members are notified in advance that choosing a format will be on the agenda, but formats are not required to be submitted in advance. So at the meeting the agenda item "Format selection" is brought up. Usually there are several formats that members want considered. Assume a member motions to use format "A", it is seconded, and discussion follows. How do the members know it they wish to vote for or against format "A" if they do not know what if any other formats will be proposed?

The subsidiary motion to Amend can be used for this purpose.

[jstackpo]

And one of the techniques in the tool-box called "Amend" is filling the Blank.

Main motion: "I move that we use format ____________"

Folks can then simply propose format-types (well defined, I presume) to fill the blank "___________" - no seconds needed.

When all the various format-types have been proposed, you start voting, one at a time: "Shall format-type A be used to fill the blank?" Debate merits of that one, then yes/no (Aye/Nay if you insist) vote - majority decides.

Go read p. 162 ff. for more important details.

[Guest b vanriette]

I read and understand "filling the Blank", thank you. We have about 20 voting members; would it be in order to deal with the format selection as a "committee of the whole"?

[Dan Honemann]

I read and understand "filling the Blank", thank you. We have about 20 voting members; would it be in order to deal with the format selection as a "committee of the whole"?

Why do you think this would help?

[Guest b vanriette]

I'm not sure it, or anything I have proposed or might propose would help. I guess that's why I came here looking for answers. Thanks to one and all.

[Guest Nancy N.]

I've never gotten a handle on this, in that item 2 on the ballot on p. 413 is sometimes allowed and sometimes not. I think of it as Format's Last Theorem.

_________

N.B. No I am not ashamed, as this is shameless.

N.B. 2. It seems so obvious to me, maybe it's been done before. In which case maybe I'm not ashamed, but I'm sure embarrassed.

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