Bylaws

[lorry]

You folks were so very helpful a couple months ago when my organization was having problems with a power-hungry attorney...so, I'm back again.

Same person is trying another power move to retake control of our organization. This is an issue of Delegates' from member clubs being seated and the definition of Alternates being seated as Delegates (with all the proper notification on file as required by our Bylaws) when a Delegate cannot attend.

Our Bylaws state: "All nominees for office must be members in good standing of a Member Organization of Region 2 and have had prior experience gained by having served as a delegate for at least one year."

Our current Director, just elected and seated this past November, was an Alternate Delegate for one of our Clubs, but sat as Delegate for 2 years never missing a meeting, because of the ill health of the delegate from that club.

The current argument being brought forth is that he is ineligible for this office because he was "only" an Alternate for the 2 years he was seated as that Club's delegate and must be declared ineligible for the position, giving an opening for the power team to take over. Problem is always nip and tuck as to whether this power team can manipulate enough delegates at each meeting to have a majority. That's why we need to have backup by RR so we do not lose our people who volunteer their time and efforts for our mission.

We do not have specific language within our Bylaws to declare any Alternate, when seated at our meetings, becomes an offical Delegate for that meeting. I

During our last challenge, I "thought" I saw a provision somewhere in Roberts' Rules that says something to the effect that a Bylaws area may be temporarily suspended for whatever reason...or am I mistaken and the reference was to a motion. In any case, I cannot find that reference in my new 11th Edition.

We cannot let this disruptive attorney get away with this and need all the backup and support we can find to slap him down. He tried to get his wife elected to the position and she lost; thus this latest move. Long story you don't want to hear about, but this cat threatens to sue anyone who points out the errors of his ways and continually causes tremendous disruption so we have a hard time keeping control and actually conducting the mission and charge of our organization.

Can anyone point me to the right RR area to back up that an Alternate, when properly recognized (credentialed), is seated as a Delegate? I have found the supporting RR rules for the conduct of a Convention, but we are simple an organization comprised of member Clubs who send delegates to our quarterly meetings. We are a middle-man, so-to-speak, in that we are also recogized as one of 18 Regions within the US and Canada for the main organization which does seat our Director as a member of the Board of Directors for that main organization which does hold an annual convention.

Hope that is not too much information to just get to the information I need; i.e., does an Alternate officially become a Delegate when seated at the meeting.

As always, in great appreciation and thanks,

Lorry

[Guest Edgar]

Duplicate post.

[Gary Novosielski]

Well, bylaws cannot be suspended unless they are clearly in the nature of a rule of order (dealing with the conduct of business in a meeting). Qualifications for office are not in that group, and cannot be suspended.

The definition of having "served as a delegate" is a matter of interpretation. Some might argue that serving as an alternate does not count, while others might say that when an alternate "serves" as a delegate, that does count. So it is up to your assembly to decide.

Proceed as if your interpretation is correct, and if the chair interprets it differently, raise a point of order that yours is the correct interpretation. If the chair rules against you, be prepared to Appeal From the Decision of the Chair. It takes a majority to overrule the decision of the chair, but if your interpretation is reasonable, and you can make the case, you'll win. Otherwise, not.

[Gary Novosielski]

Duplicate post.

Drat.

[lorry]

Well, bylaws cannot be suspended unless they are clearly in the nature of a rule of order (dealing with the conduct of business in a meeting). Qualifications for office are not in that group, and cannot be suspended.

The definition of having "served as a delegate" is a matter of interpretation. Some might argue that serving as an alternate does not count, while others might say that when an alternate "serves" as a delegate, that does count. So it is up to your assembly to decide.

Proceed as if your interpretation is correct, and if the chair interprets it differently, raise a point of order that yours is the correct interpretation. If the chair rules against you, be prepared to Appeal From the Decision of the Chair. It takes a majority to overrule the decision of the chair, but if your interpretation is reasonable, and you can make the case, you'll win. Otherwise, not.

Thanks, Gary. Our "chair" is our new Director so would obviously rule that an Alternate becomes a Delegate when logging into the meeting as "present" for his/her Club. Then hope we have enough votes to support that decision. Geez! And we have "voluneered" for this brutality...been with this group since 1978 and never had such a nasty person to have to deal with.

[Josh Martin]

Can anyone point me to the right RR area to back up that an Alternate, when properly recognized (credentialed), is seated as a Delegate? I have found the supporting RR rules for the conduct of a Convention, but we are simple an organization comprised of member Clubs who send delegates to our quarterly meetings. We are a middle-man, so-to-speak, in that we are also recogized as one of 18 Regions within the US and Canada for the main organization which does seat our Director as a member of the Board of Directors for that main organization which does hold an annual convention.

RONR only uses the terms "delegate" and "alternate" in the context of a convention, so what is said in RONR, 11th ed., pgs. 602-605 is all it has to say on the subject. In particular, pg. 604, lines 32-36 addresses your question (at least in the context of a convention).

[lorry]

RONR only uses the terms "delegate" and "alternate" in the context of a convention, so what is said in RONR, 11th ed., pgs. 602-605 is all it has to say on the subject. In particular, pg. 604, lines 32-36 addresses your question (at least in the context of a convention).

Thanks. I found that which would be perfect except we are dealing with a crazy attorney that's out of control and I was hoping this same was elsewhere specifically applying to same positions in meetings, not just Conventions. He would jump on that.

It's always a wonderful learning session when I come here to get straightened out. Thanks, all.

[Dan Honemann]

Thanks. I found that which would be perfect except we are dealing with a crazy attorney that's out of control and I was hoping this same was elsewhere specifically applying to same positions in meetings, not just Conventions. He would jump on that.

It's always a wonderful learning session when I come here to get straightened out. Thanks, all.

Comments of this sort make one wonder exactly who it is who is out of control.

[lorry]

Comments of this sort make one wonder exactly who it is who is out of control.

My apologies for addressing what is our organization's problem and of no interest to anyone here is the human element which has caused that problem. Please forgive my frustrations. Since this wonderful country is also suffering in many ways from the same type of problems at government levels which affect our lives in general, I find that sometimes the sharing of the background of why I'm looking for solutions via Bylaws and Robert's Rules for the correct way to solve problems within the several organizations of which I am an active member just spills out.

I will try to keep future communications to "just the facts!"

But, again, I sincerely appreciate the expertise within this forum.