Cancelled or Not Cancelled- When How Where and Why?

[DanielEHayes]

This is related to the same fire company and situation referred to in another thread. Which is below for anybody wishing background detail.

http://robertsrules.forumflash.com/index.php?/topic/26032-improperly-called-special-meeting-point-of-orderruling-appeal-and-debate/

 

The body in question is composed of 58 voting members which are the volunteers of the company.

They require 15 members be present for quorum.

The regular monthly meeting is the second thusrday of the month at 7pm, as listed in the bylaws (with no location mentioned).
They dont hold it in july because of the carnival - the chair said at the last meeting that it wouldnt be held and ordered that that announcement be put in the minutes.
It had been rumored that group of 15 members including the Chair/Chief seem to have gotten together on Wednesday at 5:30 PM during the carnival and held a special meeting to vote to pay $3000 to rent giant plastic balls for people to roll around in at their picnic.
The special meeting was not properly noticed.
Possibly having learned of this or maybe this is what really happened, the claim is now that that group of 15 got together on Thursday(the second one of the month) at 7pm and held the vote, but this was supposedly done at the carnival.
It seems, in general (except in this case)  that the same room has been used for 50 years for their regular meetings.


Their bylaws have no provision for them to cancel a regular meeting.

How should the fact the chair stated and had it recorded that the meeting was "cancelled" for the July carnival as is their custom, even though it wasn't "legal" for him to do so figure into this decision?
I think that since they held or are lying they held their meeting at the regularly schedule time but they held it in a different location than is custom and a location for the next meeting place was never noticed to the majority of the members(or any member) via pager as seems to be their method for notice, the action taken at what they are claiming is a regular meeting is still invalid as the meeting was not properly noticed. I'd like to have some input from the more experienced members on this situtation.

Clearly we are dealing with some scum bags that should be removed. If they are seemingly willing to deceive others over something this trivial to waste money on, what else might they lie about? That said..the matter of this thread deals with holding a regular meeting after the chairman told others they would not have one. It also deals with holding a meeting at the time prescribed in the bylaws but not noticing the different location of the meeting properly to all members. The location of the regular meeting is not prescribed in the bylaws but customarily held in the same place.


 

[Richard Brown]

Wow!  OK, a few random thoughts while I am trying to sort through this:

 

1.  First, I believe, for several reasons, that it was not a legitimate meeting and the "motion" which was "adopted" at it is null and void.

 

2.  Custom comes into play at least twice:  First, by custom no meeting is held in July.  This custom may continue until a point of order is raised that it violates the bylaws.  That can be done only at a meeting.

 

3.  The second instance of custom being a factor is that the meetings, by custom, have been held in the same room for 50 years.  Since the bylaws are silent as to where the meetings shall be held, this custom should be followed until changed by a proper motion or standing rule.  Holding the so-called "meeting" at any place other than that location without a proper motion or notice would not be proper.  I assume that some of those who attended the so-called meeting are now trying to claim that it was the regular July meeting (which isn't usually held) so no notice was necessary, even though it was held at a different location.  Note: I'm assuming that the regular meeting room isn't on the carnival grounds.  If it is, that could be problematic, but I still think the meeting would be illegal.

 

4.  If the claim is that this was a special meeting, rather than a regular meeting, it was clearly held without proper notice (assuming the lack of notice is undisputed) and any motions adopted would be null and void.  If the claim is that it was a special meeting, it doesn't matter if the get together happened on Wednesday or Thursday.

 

5. Discipline, up to and including removal from office and even expulsion from membership seems in order, but this is up to the organization and at least partially dependent on its bylaws.  Because of its nature as a volunteer fire company, there may be legal factors involved.

 

6.  If the money is  actually spent, the officers and members who participated in the illegal meeting and spent (or voted to spend) the money might be held personally responsible for the expenditures unless the action is properly ratified by the organization.

 

7.  If there is a chance that this meeting will be determined to have been a legal meeting and that the motion to spend the money was validly adopted, the member who is objecting to all of this should keep in mind the alternative strategy I mentioned in the other thread, namely, to give notice that he intends to move to rescind the motion at the next meeting.  If the motion from the July "meeting" is  ruled to be null  and void (either by ruling of the chair or by an appeal), this becomes moot and he simply does not  make  his motion  to rescind.  If the action from the July "meeting" is ruled valid, then he can proceed with his motion to rescind and it can be adopted with a majority vote rather than a two thirds vote or a vote of a majority of the entire membership.

[Guest Nancy N.]

Wow!  ...

 

Hey. Nice.