Guest Guest Posted January 19, 2018 at 06:22 PM Report Share Posted January 19, 2018 at 06:22 PM Happy New Year! So we are at that time where we have to address this issue from my last post "Effective Date for Term of Office." http://robertsrules.forumflash.com/topic/30607-effective-date-for-term-of-office/. Our Executive Board met to draft a bylaws amendment that would allow for staggered elections for our officers. Now, we are being told that if we elect this bylaws change, then it would effect every council across the state. This is what we proposed: To amend Area Council Bylaws Article VII Officers and Their Elections, Section 3, by changing the election of the Executive Committee Officers to a staggered election for the officers. Currently Reads: Section 3. Officers shall be elected in the month of April. If amended, will read: Section 3. Officers of the Executive Committee shall be elected in the month of April, in a staggered election process. The office of President, Secretary, and VP of Reflections will be elected in odd number years. The offices of VP of Membership and Treasurer will be elected in even number years, beginning April 2018. Rationale: This change will allow the term of service for the Area Council Presidents to align with the current terms of service for Executive Board Members of the State Association and the Board of Directors for the District Association. The staggering of the elections of Executive Board members will allow for continuity of leadership on the Area Council board of directors. We were told that this section the only part of this section that could be changed was the month, and that words could not be added or removed from this section. Our general membership meeting is next week, and I am hoping to get some resolve before then. How does an amendment for one Council become a mandatory change for the entire association? Council Bylaws Amendment Guide.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jstackpo Posted January 19, 2018 at 06:47 PM Report Share Posted January 19, 2018 at 06:47 PM In answer to your question (not actually intending to sound flippant...), I haven't the slightest idea. You will have to ask the person who told you. There might be some quirk in the State-level bylaws that requires the bylaw amendment to apply to all councils, but that seems HIGHLY unlikely. I think the person who told you doesn't know what he/she is talking about. Or misunderstood what you were attempting to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Guest Posted January 19, 2018 at 09:34 PM Report Share Posted January 19, 2018 at 09:34 PM And that is the most respectable answer I can ever receive. I don't know why this is so difficult, but it appears that it is just not right. If there is some document that prevents us from additing to OUR council bylaws, we have not received it. All we have to go off of is the file that I attached earlier. Thanks for responding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jstackpo Posted January 19, 2018 at 10:49 PM Report Share Posted January 19, 2018 at 10:49 PM I sure don't see anything in that "guide" that prohibits your setting up staggered terms. And further I see absolutely nothing that says your local council bylaw amendments have to be the same for all the other councils. Get a copy of the State and National bylaws and see what they say about council bylaw requirements. The national PTA seems a lot more bossy than when I had kids and membership in it, lo those many years ago (in a Galaxy far away) ). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Who's Coming to Dinner Posted January 19, 2018 at 11:46 PM Report Share Posted January 19, 2018 at 11:46 PM 5 hours ago, Guest Guest said: We were told… By whom? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Martin Posted January 20, 2018 at 01:33 AM Report Share Posted January 20, 2018 at 01:33 AM (edited) 2 hours ago, jstackpo said: I sure don't see anything in that "guide" that prohibits your setting up staggered terms. Well, the first line of the guide does say “Council may only amend the following items in their bylaws.” The closest item here is an item which says “State a specific number of years that officers may hold office, either one (1) or two (2) (ex. 1).” I can see reasonable arguments about whether or not this permits staggered terms. I agree that I don’t follow the logic about how it would have to apply to every society in the state. Edited January 20, 2018 at 01:37 AM by Josh Martin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshua Katz Posted January 20, 2018 at 05:19 AM Report Share Posted January 20, 2018 at 05:19 AM Is the organization incorporated? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Guest Posted January 20, 2018 at 01:12 PM Report Share Posted January 20, 2018 at 01:12 PM 7 hours ago, Joshua Katz said: Is the organization incorporated? Yes, we are incorporated. This is the excerpt from our State Bylaws addressing amendments to our Council bylaws, and I agree, there should not be an issue with the proposed amendment. #Section 7. Amendments to bylaws: 443 a. Council bylaws may be amended at any regular meeting of the council by a two-thirds (2/3) vote of the members present and voting, 444 provided that notice of the proposed amendment shall have been given at least thirty (30) days prior to the meeting of the council and 445 that the amendment shall be subject to approval of the state PTA; 446 b. The amendment shall become effective upon receipt of approval from the state PTA; and 447 c. In the event that a revised set of bylaws is required by the state PTA and there are no changes in the council information stated in 448 the current bylaws, the thirty (30) day waiting period is waived. So with our meeting on Wednesday, I am having to take a crash refresher course in Robert's Rule to be able to chair this meeting and articulate to our membership the options we have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Guest Posted January 20, 2018 at 01:16 PM Report Share Posted January 20, 2018 at 01:16 PM 13 hours ago, Guest Who's Coming to Dinner said: By whom? We were told by the State Bylaws committee chair who is the leader of this issue, which has stemmed from my last post "Effective Date for Term of Office." http://robertsrules.forumflash.com/topic/30607-effective-date-for-term-of-office/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Guest Posted January 20, 2018 at 01:21 PM Report Share Posted January 20, 2018 at 01:21 PM 14 hours ago, jstackpo said: I sure don't see anything in that "guide" that prohibits your setting up staggered terms. And further I see absolutely nothing that says your local council bylaw amendments have to be the same for all the other councils. Get a copy of the State and National bylaws and see what they say about council bylaw requirements. The national PTA seems a lot more bossy than when I had kids and membership in it, lo those many years ago (in a Galaxy far away) ). This is the excerpt from our State Bylaws addressing amendments to our Council bylaws, and I agree, there should not be an issue with the proposed amendment. #Section 7. Amendments to bylaws: 443 a. Council bylaws may be amended at any regular meeting of the council by a two-thirds (2/3) vote of the members present and voting, 444 provided that notice of the proposed amendment shall have been given at least thirty (30) days prior to the meeting of the council and 445 that the amendment shall be subject to approval of the state PTA; 446 b. The amendment shall become effective upon receipt of approval from the state PTA; and 447 c. In the event that a revised set of bylaws is required by the state PTA and there are no changes in the council information stated in 448 the current bylaws, the thirty (30) day waiting period is waived. So with our meeting on Wednesday, I am having to take a crash refresher course in Robert's Rule to be able to chair this meeting and articulate to our membership the options we have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jstackpo Posted January 20, 2018 at 01:31 PM Report Share Posted January 20, 2018 at 01:31 PM What is the basis or authority for the State bylaws chairman to impose bylaw related rules on councils that are (near as I can see) unsupported in the State Bylaws? You will have to ask him/her, of course. Or putting it more simply: "Oh yeah, sez who?" Granted, as you quoted: "445 that the amendment shall be subject to approval of the state PTA" but what are the criteria for approval/disapproval? Are they written somewhere? Were they ever formally adopted by the State PTA? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshua Katz Posted January 20, 2018 at 01:58 PM Report Share Posted January 20, 2018 at 01:58 PM 44 minutes ago, Guest Guest said: Yes, we are incorporated. Corporate codes sometimes set up special rules for staggered boards. This may be a legal question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Who's Coming to Dinner Posted January 20, 2018 at 03:17 PM Report Share Posted January 20, 2018 at 03:17 PM 1 hour ago, Guest Guest said: We were told by the State Bylaws committee chair who is the leader of this issue, which has stemmed from my last post "Effective Date for Term of Office." http://robertsrules.forumflash.com/topic/30607-effective-date-for-term-of-office/ I think what you are receiving is an opinion that the state PTA will not approve your amendment as you intend to enact it. Perhaps this business about "applying everywhere" is a silly threat. If the state rules don't specify any criteria for approval, then the state PTA can turn you down for any reason or no reason at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jstackpo Posted January 20, 2018 at 05:25 PM Report Share Posted January 20, 2018 at 05:25 PM Is there any appeal mechanism in the State PTA bylaws that you can use, in the event that you go ahead and adopt your staggered term provisions and get turned down by the Bylaws Committee? Take the fight to them... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Guest Posted January 20, 2018 at 10:03 PM Report Share Posted January 20, 2018 at 10:03 PM 8 hours ago, jstackpo said: Granted, as you quoted: "445 that the amendment shall be subject to approval of the state PTA" but what are the criteria for approval/disapproval? Are they written somewhere? Were they ever formally adopted by the State PTA? If the criteria is written somewhere, we were only given the "bylaws amendment guide" to follow. I have put in a request for this information, and I hope to get it before our meeting. I have requested that the bylaws chair attend our meeting, in hopes that she would give the membership the proper guidance in explaining why the effective date of the 2 year term of office amendment was delayed and also why staggered elections are not permissible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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