Doug Rapport Posted April 9, 2020 at 06:23 PM Report Share Posted April 9, 2020 at 06:23 PM Our organization allows vote by mail per the By-Laws. If a vote by mail is conducted, can someone change a vote once it has been sent and received by the person responsible for tabulating the votes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J. J. Posted April 9, 2020 at 06:47 PM Report Share Posted April 9, 2020 at 06:47 PM 23 minutes ago, Doug Rapport said: Our organization allows vote by mail per the By-Laws. If a vote by mail is conducted, can someone change a vote once it has been sent and received by the person responsible for tabulating the votes? No, especially if this was a secret ballot vote. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Rapport Posted April 9, 2020 at 08:20 PM Author Report Share Posted April 9, 2020 at 08:20 PM Thanks J.J. Yes it is a secret ballot. Can you please point me to the applicable section where it says this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atul Kapur Posted April 9, 2020 at 09:26 PM Report Share Posted April 9, 2020 at 09:26 PM (edited) I don't have the book in front of me but, as a practical matter, why don't you ask the person who's trying to change their vote how they intend to identify exactly which one of the secret ballots was theirs? The analogy is when the ballot is put in the ballot box. No one gets to fish in and try to pull their ballot back out. Edited April 9, 2020 at 11:11 PM by Atul Kapur Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Martin Posted April 9, 2020 at 09:37 PM Report Share Posted April 9, 2020 at 09:37 PM (edited) 2 hours ago, J. J. said: No, especially if this was a secret ballot vote. 12 minutes ago, Atul Kapur said: I don't have the book in front of me but, as a practical matter, why don't you ask the person who's trying to change their vote how they intend to identify exactly which one of the secret ballots was theirs? The analogy is when the ballot is put in the ballot box. No one gets to fish in and try to pull their ballad back out. I concur generally with the idea that a secret ballot vote cannot be changed once cast. I would note that in the particular case of a mail vote, however, it may or may not be feasible for a member to change their vote, depending on the procedures the society uses for the mail vote and where the society is at in that process. 1 hour ago, Doug Rapport said: Thanks J.J. Yes it is a secret ballot. Can you please point me to the applicable section where it says this? To the best of my knowledge, there is no rule in RONR explicitly regarding this subject. Edited April 9, 2020 at 09:39 PM by Josh Martin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J. J. Posted April 9, 2020 at 11:03 PM Report Share Posted April 9, 2020 at 11:03 PM 1 hour ago, Josh Martin said: To the best of my knowledge, there is no rule in RONR explicitly regarding this subject. I agree, but I would note that the ability to change a vote is described in the context of a non-secret vote. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Novosielski Posted April 9, 2020 at 11:09 PM Report Share Posted April 9, 2020 at 11:09 PM 4 minutes ago, J. J. said: I agree, but I would note that the ability to change a vote is described in the context of a non-secret vote. True, but for a mail-in vote, depending on the procedures in use, it may be possible to identify the sender of an envelope before the outer envelopes are opened and the identity of the sender lost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Rapport Posted April 9, 2020 at 11:10 PM Author Report Share Posted April 9, 2020 at 11:10 PM Oh maybe I did not understand what was meant by secret ballot. The tabulator knows how each person voted, the votes are not made public or divulged to the other members. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Novosielski Posted April 9, 2020 at 11:14 PM Report Share Posted April 9, 2020 at 11:14 PM (edited) 5 minutes ago, Doug Rapport said: Oh maybe I did not understand what was meant by secret ballot. The tabulator knows how each person voted, the votes are not made public or divulged to the other members. That sounds like some procedures could use some touching up. There is no reason why a tabulator should be able to know how someone voted if the mail-in procedures in RONR are followed. Once the outer envelopes are opened, and the inner envelopes are mixed together, nobody can tie a vote back to its voter. If a voter wanted to change a vote, the tabulator could identify that envelope if it had a return address, and return or destroy it unopened. The voter would then vote again. Nobody would know how the voter voted either time. Note: This is not meant to imply that the voter has such a right, but only whether it could be accomodated. Edited April 9, 2020 at 11:17 PM by Gary Novosielski Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Martin Posted April 10, 2020 at 01:24 AM Report Share Posted April 10, 2020 at 01:24 AM 2 hours ago, Doug Rapport said: Oh maybe I did not understand what was meant by secret ballot. The tabulator knows how each person voted, the votes are not made public or divulged to the other members. Well, that does seem to answer the immediate question - it is possible for the member to change his vote. The procedures should be modified in the future, however, so that the tabulator does not know how each member voted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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