Abstentions counted in determining 2/3 majority

[Jesus Alvarez]

Hello everyone,

I am so glad I've found this group! I've spent a couple of hours today looking for a solution to the following situation:

I belong to a group that Uses Robert's Rules of Order to conduct our business meetings although it's fair to say that none of us have a real working knowledge of said Rules. At a recent business meeting--last Sunday 11/15--a motion I had made came up for a vote. It was determined by the business chair that this motion required a 2/3 majority for approval. The business chair erroneously counted abstentions when tallying the results and the motion did not pass.

Later that day, after consulting a copy I own of RROO (The Modern Edition), I discovered that abstentions should not be included in the tabulation. When the abstention votes are removed from the total votes, the motion meets the 2/3 required to pass. The final vote was 17 in favor and 8 against. I have brought this up to the group and told them that I'd be willing to do some more research and bring it back to the group.

What would be the proper way to address and correct this? I'd really appreciate any guidance on how to proceed.

Thanks in advance for your your time and any assistance you might offer.

Jesus Alvarez

[Richard Brown]

48 minutes ago, Jesus Alvarez said:

Hello everyone,

I am so glad I've found this group! I've spent a couple of hours today looking for a solution to the following situation:

I belong to a group that Uses Robert's Rules of Order to conduct our business meetings although it's fair to say that none of us have a real working knowledge of said Rules. At a recent business meeting--last Sunday 11/15--a motion I had made came up for a vote. It was determined by the business chair that this motion required a 2/3 majority for approval. The business chair erroneously counted abstentions when tallying the results and the motion did not pass.

Later that day, after consulting a copy I own of RROO (The Modern Edition), I discovered that abstentions should not be included in the tabulation. When the abstention votes are removed from the total votes, the motion meets the 2/3 required to pass. The final vote was 17 in favor and 8 against. I have brought this up to the group and told them that I'd be willing to do some more research and bring it back to the group.

What would be the proper way to address and correct this? I'd really appreciate any guidance on how to proceed.

Thanks in advance for your your time and any assistance you might offer.

Jesus Alvarez

You are correct that abstentions should be ignored. They are not votes. Based on what you told us, your motion should have passed. However, the announcement of the chair is determinative and is final unless someone raises an immediate Point of Order and possibly an appeal. Since this apparently was not done, it is too late now.

However, all is not lost. You may simply “renew“ the motion by making it again at the next meeting or any future meeting.

Edited November 23, 2020 at 02:59 AM by Richard Brown
Corrected a couple of embarrassing typos after Mr. Merritt made his post which politely did not mention my mistakes!

[Weldon Merritt]

2 hours ago, Jesus Alvarez said:

What would be the proper way to address and correct this? I'd really appreciate any guidance on how to proceed.

Mr. Brown beat me to the punch with essentially the same thing I was going to say. But, I'll throw in two additional observations gratis.

First, don't refer to "a 2/3 majority." A majority vote is more than half of the votes cast.  A two-thirds vote is, well, two-thirds of the votes cast. Conflating the terms leads to confusion.

Second, "RROO (The Modern Edition)" is not the Right Book. I don't have a copy to refer to, but as near as I can determine based on my Google search, it essentially is the original 1876 work by Henry M. Robert, revised by Darwin Patnode, Ph.D. The current official version or is Robert's Rules is Robert's Rules of Order Newly Revised (12th edition). In this particular instance, the answer you got from you your book was correct, but that might not always be the case. I recommend you get the correct current version, and it's companion, Robert's Rules of Order Newly Revised in Brief (3rd edition), which you can view here.

Edited November 23, 2020 at 04:44 AM by Weldon Merritt
Edited to correct typos.

[Jesus Alvarez]

Thank you so much for sharing your expertise on this subject with me. I value your time and generosity.

And I will update my library!