Guest Chris Null Posted March 5, 2021 at 04:22 AM Report Posted March 5, 2021 at 04:22 AM It looks like we cannot meet as a body again due to COVID but we have bylaws that need addressing. Is there a platform anyone has found or used that allows for a virtual debate, with amendments, etc... bylaw proposals? Thanks in advance Sorry if this was already asked, I looked and didn't see anything. Quote
Guest Chris Null Posted March 5, 2021 at 04:23 AM Report Posted March 5, 2021 at 04:23 AM Let me add that our body is made up of over 2000 individuals. Quote
Richard Brown Posted March 5, 2021 at 09:45 AM Report Posted March 5, 2021 at 09:45 AM (edited) 5 hours ago, Guest Chris Null said: Is there a platform anyone has found or used that allows for a virtual debate, with amendments, etc... bylaw proposals? I’m not sure I understand your question. There are several platforms for virtual meetings. The one best known and most commonly used is Zoom, but there are several others, such as Google Meet, Adobe Connect, etc. However, meeting electronically is prohibited by RONR unless specifically permitted in your bylaws or by state law or an emergency order such as a governor’s proclamation. Do your bylaws permit electronic meetings? Edited March 5, 2021 at 09:55 AM by Richard Brown Typographical correction Quote
Josh Martin Posted March 5, 2021 at 02:10 PM Report Posted March 5, 2021 at 02:10 PM 9 hours ago, Guest Chris Null said: Let me add that our body is made up of over 2000 individuals. For clarity, is this the number of total members in the organization, or the number of members who generally showed up to meetings? If the latter, it may be extremely difficult as a practical matter for such a large assembly to meet electronically (even if it is authorized under the rules to do so). Just for starters, it may be difficult to find a meeting technology that supports that many participants. Quote
Richard Brown Posted March 5, 2021 at 02:34 PM Report Posted March 5, 2021 at 02:34 PM 17 minutes ago, Josh Martin said: . . . It may be extremely difficult as a practical matter for such a large assembly to meet electronically (even if it is authorized under the rules to do so). Just for starters, it may be difficult to find a meeting technology that supports that many participants. Agreeing with Mr. Martin, last year I served as the parliamentarian for an electronic convention with almost exactly 1000 delegates/participants. It was not fun, there were plenty of glitches and complaints, but the organization did get the essential work done. Last year I also served as the parliamentarian at a hybrid convention consisting of approximately 500 delegates present in person and about another 500 participating online electronically. Again, it was not fun, there were plenty of glitches, but in the end the organization did get the necessary work done. Zoom was used for both conventions, but other technology was used to accommodate voting which took place by secret ballot. The zoom polling feature was used for other votes. Quote
Guest Chris Null Posted March 5, 2021 at 02:53 PM Report Posted March 5, 2021 at 02:53 PM Let me restate the question differently. I am not concerned about the virtual meeting. I want to know if there is a platform that enables thousands of people to view a proposed bylaw change, propose amendments, track the changes being made and allow for feedback through comments or LIKES (similar to FB) for each change. The idea being that since we cannot meet in person maybe we can figure out a way to still have an electronic discussion on the proposals with the hopes that we can hash out most, if not all of the discussion in advance of the vote that would happen electronically for remote members. If you are familiar with MS WORD change tracking feature, think of it as that but on a massive scale. The body is made up of ~2600 delegates who then get to vote on the changes. Thank you! Quote
Josh Martin Posted March 5, 2021 at 03:22 PM Report Posted March 5, 2021 at 03:22 PM (edited) 32 minutes ago, Guest Chris Null said: Let me restate the question differently. I am not concerned about the virtual meeting. Whether you are concerned about it or not, the fact remains that electronic meetings or electronic voting are not permitted unless authorized by the bylaws or an applicable law or executive order. "Except as authorized in the bylaws, the business of an organization or board can be validly transacted only at a regular or properly called meeting—that is, as defined in 8:2(1), a single official gathering in one room or area—of the assembly of its members at which a quorum is present. Among some organizations, there is an increasing preference, especially in the case of a relatively small board or other assembly, to transact business at electronic meetings—that is, at meetings at which, rather than all participating members being physically present in one room or area as in traditional (or “face-to-face”) meetings, some or all of them communicate with the others through electronic means such as the Internet or by telephone. A group that holds such alternative meetings does not lose its character as a deliberative assembly (see 1:1) so long as the meetings provide, at a minimum, conditions of opportunity for simultaneous aural communication among all participating members equivalent to those of meetings held in one room or area. Under such conditions, an electronic meeting that is properly authorized in the bylaws is treated as though it were a meeting at which all the members who are participating are actually present." RONR (12th ed.) 9:31-9:32 "It is a fundamental principle of parliamentary law that the right to vote is limited to the members of an organization who are actually present at the time the vote is taken in a regular or properly called meeting, although it should be noted that a member need not be present when the question is put. Exceptions to this rule must be expressly stated in the bylaws. Such possible exceptions include: (a) voting by postal mail, e-mail, or fax, and (b) proxy voting." RONR (12th ed.) 45:56 32 minutes ago, Guest Chris Null said: I want to know if there is a platform that enables thousands of people to view a proposed bylaw change, propose amendments, track the changes being made and allow for feedback through comments or LIKES (similar to FB) for each change. The idea being that since we cannot meet in person maybe we can figure out a way to still have an electronic discussion on the proposals with the hopes that we can hash out most, if not all of the discussion in advance of the vote that would happen electronically for remote members. If you are familiar with MS WORD change tracking feature, think of it as that but on a massive scale. The body is made up of ~2600 delegates who then get to vote on the changes. The document tracking actually seems relatively simple. It would seem to me that platforms such as Google Docs, Sharepoint, or Microsoft Teams could likely serve this purpose. I am not aware, however, of a platform which supports 2,600 participants in an actual live meeting. I found a few that could support up to 1,000 participants, but I didn't see anything beyond that. (Some support more for "events," although my understanding is that format is designed more for an informational presentation than a meeting which enables members to participate.) It sounds, however, like the intent may be to use electronic voting but not an actual electronic meeting, and that seems more technically feasible... although this would still need to be authorized in the bylaws or applicable law or executive order. Edited March 5, 2021 at 03:26 PM by Josh Martin Quote
Guest Chris Null Posted March 7, 2021 at 04:56 AM Report Posted March 7, 2021 at 04:56 AM On 3/5/2021 at 8:22 AM, Josh Martin said: I am not aware, however, of a platform which supports 2,600 participants in an actual live meeting. I found a few that could support up to 1,000 participants, but I didn't see anything beyond that. (Some support more for "events," although my understanding is that format is designed more for an informational presentation than a meeting which enables members to participate.) It sounds, however, like the intent may be to use electronic voting but not an actual electronic meeting, and that seems more technically feasible... although this would still need to be authorized in the bylaws or applicable law or executive order. Thank you for your response. My question is specific to the software. I realize we will need to workout the issue in our bylaws before we can use the software, but there is no point in doing that is the capability does not exist. One more point of clarify is that I think when the discussion came up we were thinking it would be helpful to allow the bylaw proposal to happen over a period of time and not a specific day and time. For example if we could post the proposal a week or two in advance and allow the membership to come to the meeting with most of it worked out. Quote
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