Maker of Motion - Speaks First, But Is S/He limited?

[Guest Joyce]

I am in an organization which is deeply divided.  The current leadership is intent upon shutting down any and all conversation which threatens its control.  We are in the process of amending the Bylaws of the entity.  In order to limit debate, the Committee Chair (the Parliamentarian) issued "debate rules" in the notice which limits discussion comments to 2 minutes per person.  I have 2 questions:

1.  Can these debate rules be issued without a member vote to approve them?  Can she just include in a notice (issued two days before the meeting) that speakers are limited to 2 minutes?

 

2.  Is the maker of a motion, who is entitled to speak first on the motion, exempt from this two minute rule? Or is their first comment, fall under the limit of all other comments?  The maker of the motion has information to provide context to the rationale for the motion as well as pre-emptive responses to why certain things are included in the proposed amendment.  Rule 43:11 allows committee chairmen delivering reports to be exempt from this rule, is there a similar exemption for the maker of the motion?  I need to tie it to a rule, or the motion maker will get shot down after 2 minutes - which is what the opposition wants to have happen.

Thank you for your thoughts.

Joyce

[Gary Novosielski]

No, someone can't just say that debate is limited.  And a Parliamentarian worthy of the title should know that.

Do you have any rules in place that say your debate is normally limited?  If not, RONR provides a ten-minute limit per speech, and a maximum of two speeches on a single question--the second only after everyone has spoken once who wishes to.

A change to the rule would be done by a motion to Limit or Extend Limits of Debate [RONR §15] which requires a two-thirds vote.

[Josh Martin]

On 10/7/2021 at 8:53 PM, Guest Joyce said:

Can these debate rules be issued without a member vote to approve them?

No. Only the membership may adopt such rules, and it will require a 2/3 vote to do so.

On 10/7/2021 at 8:53 PM, Guest Joyce said:

Can she just include in a notice (issued two days before the meeting) that speakers are limited to 2 minutes?

No.

On 10/7/2021 at 8:53 PM, Guest Joyce said:

Is the maker of a motion, who is entitled to speak first on the motion, exempt from this two minute rule?

No, unless the rule so provides.

On 10/7/2021 at 8:53 PM, Guest Joyce said:

Or is their first comment, fall under the limit of all other comments? 

If the assembly adopts a rule "which limits discussion comments to 2 minutes per person," this rule is applicable to all members, including the motion maker. If the assembly wishes to permit the motion maker to speak for a longer period, then the rule would need to specifically provide as much.

As Mr. Novosielski has noted, if the assembly does not adopt this rule (and has no other rules on this matter), the default rule under RONR is that members may speak up two twice per day on each debatable motion, for up to ten minutes each time. That rule is equally applicable to the motion maker, including their first speech. 

On 10/7/2021 at 8:53 PM, Guest Joyce said:

The maker of the motion has information to provide context to the rationale for the motion as well as pre-emptive responses to why certain things are included in the proposed amendment.

The assembly may certainly consider that when determining whether to adopt or amend the rule in question.

On 10/7/2021 at 8:53 PM, Guest Joyce said:

Rule 43:11 allows committee chairmen delivering reports to be exempt from this rule, is there a similar exemption for the maker of the motion?

The reason why committee reports are exempt from a rule limiting debate is because, as the rule notes, the report is not itself debate. The report is made prior to the making of the motions (if any) arising from the committee report. In contrast, the motion maker speaks in debate after making the motion. The motion maker's speech is considered debate in the same manner as any other member speaking on the motion. While the motion maker may speak first, the motion maker is not entitled to extra time unless the organization's rules so provide.

Indeed, if you read the rest of 43:11, it clarifies that even the committee chair is bound by the limits on debate when speaking in debate on any resulting motions made by the committee chair.

"A committee chairman or reporting member is not considered to be debating when presenting or reading the committee's report, but he is bound to obey the assembly's rules relating to debate in any speech made by him in support of the motion offered on behalf of the committee." RONR (12th ed.) 43:11

I would add that while limits on debate do not affect reports (since they are not debate), the assembly may indeed adopt rules limiting the length of reports if it wishes to do so, or even prevent the reading of reports altogether if it wishes and have the reports only submitted in writing. I was a member of an assembly which adopted a rule limiting the length of committee reports due to one particularly long-winded chairman.