Motion to ratify

[rbk]

Consider the following hypothetical:

Sally is elected to membership at an inquorate meeting in January. Per RONR (12th ed.) 10:54, a motion to ratify is adopted in February to validate Sally's membership.

Did Sally's membership start in January or February? Should the motion to ratify state the effective date of Sally's membership?

[Richard Brown]

On 10/5/2022 at 10:39 AM, rbk said:

Consider the following hypothetical:

Sally is elected to membership at an inquorate meeting in January. Per RONR (12th ed.) 10:54, a motion to ratify is adopted in February to validate Sally's membership.

Did Sally's membership start in January or February? Should the motion to ratify state the effective date of Sally's membership?

My opinion is that the start date of Sally's membership would be January.  RONR does not explicitly state whether ratification relates back to the date of the original action, but I believe it does.  I base this in part on language in the book Parliamentary Law published by General Robert in 1923.  In a discussion of the motion to ratify, General Robert states, on page 13:  " As an illustration of the use of the motion to ratify take the following:  A meeting at which the delegates to the state convention are to be elected occurs on such a stormy night that no quorum is present.  Since the nest meeting will be too late for the election, the delegates are chosen at this meeting, and at the next meeting the fact is reported and the society legalizes the election by ratifying it"  (Emphasis added).

That language tells me that the ratification relates back to the date of the original "illegal" action which is being ratified.

Edited to add: Demeter seems to say the same thing on pages 150 and 168. Demeter's Manual of Parliamentary Law and Procedure by George Demeter, 1969.

Edited October 5, 2022 at 04:18 PM by Richard Brown
Added last paragraph

[Josh Martin]

On 10/5/2022 at 10:39 AM, rbk said:

Consider the following hypothetical:

Sally is elected to membership at an inquorate meeting in January. Per RONR (12th ed.) 10:54, a motion to ratify is adopted in February to validate Sally's membership.

Did Sally's membership start in January or February? Should the motion to ratify state the effective date of Sally's membership?

For what reason, specifically, does it matter whether Sally's membership started in January or February?

Under the rules of RONR, this fact will generally be irrelevant. All that matters is whether Sally is currently a member, which she now is. If there is some reason why it matters whether Sally was a member in January, it seems to me this will generally be due to some provision in the organization's bylaws. As a result, such a question will ultimately be one of interpreting the organization's bylaws. Ultimately, I think this is a question which is dependent on the specific facts of a particular situation, and it is not possible to answer this question without that information.

On 10/5/2022 at 11:08 AM, Richard Brown said:

My opinion is that the start date of Sally's membership would be January.  RONR does not explicitly state whether ratification relates back to the date of the original action, but I believe it does.  I base this in part on language in the book Parliamentary Law published by General Robert in 1923.  In a discussion of the motion to ratify, General Robert states, on page 13:  " As an illustration of the use of the motion to ratify take the following:  A meeting at which the delegates to the state convention are to be elected occurs on such a stormy night that no quorum is present.  Since the nest meeting will be too late for the election, the delegates are chosen at this meeting, and at the next meeting the fact is reported and the society legalizes the election by ratifying it"  (Emphasis added).

That language tells me that the ratification relates back to the date of the original "illegal" action which is being ratified.

Edited to add: Demeter seems to say the same thing on pages 150 and 168. Demeter's Manual of Parliamentary Law and Procedure by George Demeter, 1969.

I am not entirely persuaded that ratification is, in all cases, retroactive to the date of the original action. I think additional facts would be helpful.

It is also not clear to me that what is said in PL on this matter enlightens us on whether ratification is retroactive. While we are told that the next meeting will be too late for the election, it is not entirely clear why this is the case, so I don't think it necessarily follows that the ratification must be retroactive.

Edited October 5, 2022 at 10:48 PM by Josh Martin

[rbk]

On 10/5/2022 at 6:47 PM, Josh Martin said:

For what reason, specifically, does it matter whether Sally's membership started in January or February?

People are elected to our organization as probationary members; they become eligible for regular membership after 1 year.

[Josh Martin]

On 10/5/2022 at 7:57 PM, rbk said:

People are elected to our organization as probationary members; they become eligible for regular membership after 1 year.

Then it seems to me it is ultimately a question of bylaws interpretation whether Sally's probationary membership started in January or February for purposes of this rule.

I suppose I am inclined to think, however, that in this particular case it does seem likely the very intent of ratification (rather than simply submitting the application anew) was to provide that Sally is considered a member as of January. So I am personally inclined, for the purposes of this question, to concur with Mr. Brown that the ratification is retroactive to January.

As to the question of whether the ratification should "state the effective date of Sally's membership," I don't think this is strictly necessary, but it certainly would make clear the society's intent if and when this question of bylaw interpretation arises in the future.

So the motion might be worded as "To ratify the motion adopted in January to admit Sally Sample as a member of the society, such that the effective date of Sally's membership is [date of the January meeting]."

Edited October 6, 2022 at 11:00 AM by Josh Martin