Gentlemen Agreement

[Richard J. Woodham]

I have an upcoming State committee meeting where the Chairman will attempt to impose an alleged gentlemen agreement (requiring equal division of the States 12 committee seats) on the upcoming December elections.  There are four open committee seats of which the chairman hand picked the current seat holders from the Northern part of the State.  The Southern part of the State has never had representation until me this year.  I need advice on how to use Robert’s Rules to stop the above issue, starting with GA removal from agenda, stopping chairman attempt to introduce the GA, removing chairman to stop any further GA intro attempts, permanently removing chairman for deceptive tactics, and ensuring there is not a vote on this or any other GA?  
 

GA’s are not binding, and have no effect unless each individual committee member agrees.  We have two board members that will not agree to the GA.   

[Gary Novosielski]

Well RONR has no provisions for a "Gentlemen's Agreement".  So it's not clear what this is.  If it's going to be introduced, I have to assume it's a motion of some sort.  If it proposed doing something that would be against the rules, you would raise a Point of Order that it is not in order, and if the chair rules against you, be prepared to Appeal.  These are covered in RONR (12th ed.) §23 and §24 respectively.

But my main question, beyond how to stop what you perceive to be wrong, is: What is supposed to happen at this meeting?  Who actually has the right to appoint these seats, and beyond being "unfair", does this "agreement" actually break any rules?

 

Edited August 5, 2023 at 10:57 PM by Gary Novosielski

[Atul Kapur]

Implementing such a thing is not a problem, if people have actually agreed to it and follow-through; there is no way to enforce it if people don't want to follow it (unwritten rules are like that, as many have experienced over the last few years).

Trying to impose it over the will of the majority is something else, altogether. 

You are asking for very detailed advice. I suggest that you, as an individual, engage the services of a professional parliamentarian to review the facts and the governing documents and prepare you for the various scenarios that you may face.

[Richard J. Woodham]

The meeting will be the pre-meeting to set the process for the State Committee annual meeting to elect four open seats that have timed-out due to the limited three years of committee service.  The four seats are filled by vote of the delegates appointed at the County level.  The Chairman has not worked to recruit County voting delegates for his slate.  I have worked to get County voting delegates for the four open committee seats. The Chairman was surprised to learn he did not have enough County delegate votes for his candidate slate, and that mine does.  He is now scrambling to attempt to have the County delegate votes spread equally over the State (Claiming Past Gentlemen Agreement) to protect his slate.  Alleged Gentlemen Agreement is not listed in any previous minutes.  Additionally, he has learned I will challenge him for the Chairman seat.  If I am successful in getting enough votes for my slate, and obtain Chairman, the committee will be equally divided by votes.  The vote count has been 10 North, 2 South starting this year.  The North agenda has been in control since 1921…yes, 1921.  

[Atul Kapur]

Under RONR, the side with more votes will prevail.

However, there are many specific details in your situation -- such as this pre-meeting (who, exactly, is pre meeting?) -- that may affect the outcome, so I reinforce my previous recommendation.

On 8/5/2023 at 7:21 PM, Atul Kapur said:

You are asking for very detailed advice. I suggest that you, as an individual, engage the services of a professional parliamentarian to review the facts and the governing documents and prepare you for the various scenarios that you may face.

 

[puzzling]

On 8/6/2023 at 12:29 AM, Richard J. Woodham said:

The meeting will be the pre-meeting to set the process for the State Committee annual meeting to elect four open seats that have timed-out due to the limited three years of committee service.  The four seats are filled by vote of the delegates appointed at the County level.  The Chairman has not worked to recruit County voting delegates for his slate.  I have worked to get County voting delegates for the four open committee seats. The Chairman was surprised to learn he did not have enough County delegate votes for his candidate slate, and that mine does.  He is now scrambling to attempt to have the County delegate votes spread equally over the State (Claiming Past Gentlemen Agreement) to protect his slate.  Alleged Gentlemen Agreement is not listed in any previous minutes.  Additionally, he has learned I will challenge him for the Chairman seat.  If I am successful in getting enough votes for my slate, and obtain Chairman, the committee will be equally divided by votes.  The vote count has been 10 North, 2 South starting this year.  The North agenda has been in control since 1921…yes, 1921.  

Maybe i am nitpicking here but voting is not done by voting for a slate.

Voting should be done by candidates. (So delegates are free to mish and match individual candidates from both lists)

The Gentlemans agreement is not worth the paper it is written on, but did you really look at all the minutes since 1921, (or even before that?) 

[Richard J. Woodham]

The Candidates for the State Committee are nominated by each County President.  The County Presidents select the Voting Delegates to represent each County at the State Committee Election Meeting.  The County Presidents nominate the Candidates for State Committee.  The County Voting Delegates elect the State Committee Members.  

[Josh Martin]

On 8/5/2023 at 6:29 PM, Richard J. Woodham said:

The meeting will be the pre-meeting to set the process for the State Committee annual meeting to elect four open seats that have timed-out due to the limited three years of committee service.  The four seats are filled by vote of the delegates appointed at the County level.

If I understand the facts correctly on this matter, then it appears "The four seats are filled by vote of the delegates appointed at the County level." As a result, delegates are free to vote for up to four eligible persons of their choice for these seats. Those candidates which obtain a majority shall be elected, unless the organization's rules provide otherwise. If some attempt is made to somehow modify the manner in which these positions are elected on the grounds of this agreement, then a Point of Order and/or Appeal, as appropriate, could be raised at that time.

On 8/5/2023 at 5:32 PM, Richard J. Woodham said:

 I need advice on how to use Robert’s Rules to stop the above issue, starting with GA removal from agenda

The agenda may be modified while it is pending by a motion to Amend, and requires a majority vote for adoption.

On 8/5/2023 at 5:32 PM, Richard J. Woodham said:

stopping chairman attempt to introduce the GA

If I understand correctly that the attempt is to modify the rules pertaining to election of positions, in contradiction with the organization's rules on this matter, a Point of Order should be raised that such a motion is not in order, followed by an Appeal if necessary.

On 8/5/2023 at 5:32 PM, Richard J. Woodham said:

removing chairman to stop any further GA intro attempts, permanently removing chairman for deceptive tactics

The chairman may be removed for the duration of the meeting by a motion to Suspend the Rules, which requires a 2/3 vote for adoption.

Permanently removing the chairman would require the procedures in your bylaws (if any) or, if your bylaws are silent, the procedures will vary depending on what your bylaws say concerning the term of office. However, since my understanding is that the regular elections for Chairman are occurring at this meeting, and the chair's term is nearly up anyway, it may be simpler to just elect someone else at that time.

On 8/5/2023 at 5:32 PM, Richard J. Woodham said:

and ensuring there is not a vote on this or any other GA

I don't know that you can ensure there is not a vote on any agreement. But in regard to this particular agreement, and any other agreement which conflicts with the organization's rules, a Point of Order, followed by an appeal, if necessary, may be raised.

Edited August 7, 2023 at 12:29 PM by Josh Martin