Movement of Funds

[Guest Tom]

Our council recently approved the opening of a new bank account. Want is the procedure for actually transferring the funds from the old account to the new account. We will not be completely closing the old account at this time. Do I need to present this in writing prior to a meeting ?

[Gary Novosielski]

If they didn't approve moving the funds at the time that they approved opening the new account, then I guess you will want a motion saying how much to transfer.

The procedure for actually transferring is up to your bank(s).  Writing a check comes to mind.  Remember checks?

[Guest Movement of Funds]

Thank you for your help.  We didn't discuss the movement of funds when we approved the new account.  Wanted to take one step at a time. I was thinking the same as you: make the motion of how much to move, but I'm getting push back from one member who thinks I need to publish it to the members before I bring the motion to the floor. I have not seen that written anywhere.

HaHa - Checks?? What are those - HaHa

[Joshua Katz]

On 8/20/2023 at 8:02 PM, Gary Novosielski said:

If they didn't approve moving the funds at the time that they approved opening the new account, then I guess you will want a motion saying how much to transfer.

 

Why isn't managing funds between the two accounts just what a treasurer does? Presumably, if they have two accounts, there will be a lot of transferring in the future. Will each transaction require a motion? Will each motion need to specify which bank account to fund an expenditure out of?

[Gary Novosielski]

On 8/21/2023 at 12:40 PM, Guest Movement of Funds said:

Thank you for your help.  We didn't discuss the movement of funds when we approved the new account.  Wanted to take one step at a time. I was thinking the same as you: make the motion of how much to move, but I'm getting push back from one member who thinks I need to publish it to the members before I bring the motion to the floor. I have not seen that written anywhere.

HaHa - Checks?? What are those - HaHa

Well, nothing in RONR would require prior notice for an ordinary main motion like that.  And if the Treasurer has sufficient powers as provided in the bylaws, or an adopted budget to work within, then I doubt you would have to go back to the membership at all.

I can't say much more without knowing what this "council" is, or how your organization is structured.  Do you have a board, a general membership, an office of Treasurer?   Some organizations are structured so that every nickel of income or expense has to be considered by the full general membership.  Some only by the board, and others only by the Treasurer--presumably with budgetary limits depending which department or committee is seeking to spend money.

Is the "council" an elected public body like a city council?  Or....what?

[Guest Movement of Funds]

Thank you  for responding. Our council is a small non-profit organization, providing benevolent services. We are actually going to be closing the one bank account, opening a new account and then moving the funds to the new account. We have already voted/approved the motion. of switching banks. Now we are ready to actually move the funds, which in our council, does require a motion/vote by the members at a general meeting. Yes, unfortunately we have a very strict structure that requires a motion/vote for every expenditure of funds; to include movement/ transfer of funds. Very cumbersome! We do have a Board and the Treasurer is part of that board. Basically, the Treasurer can't do anything without membership approval. So, we thought we could just call for a motion to move the funds and vote. We are being told by one member that this motion must be presented in written format at a meeting and read. It cannot be just a simple verbal motion. I can't seem to find anything that states this motion needs to be in writing and read at a meeting first. I do know that we won't vote on it until the next meeting. So, does this motion need to be in writing?

Thank you.

 

 

 

 

[Josh Martin]

On 8/21/2023 at 6:52 PM, Guest Movement of Funds said:

Thank you  for responding. Our council is a small non-profit organization, providing benevolent services. We are actually going to be closing the one bank account, opening a new account and then moving the funds to the new account. We have already voted/approved the motion. of switching banks. Now we are ready to actually move the funds, which in our council, does require a motion/vote by the members at a general meeting. Yes, unfortunately we have a very strict structure that requires a motion/vote for every expenditure of funds; to include movement/ transfer of funds. Very cumbersome! We do have a Board and the Treasurer is part of that board. Basically, the Treasurer can't do anything without membership approval. So, we thought we could just call for a motion to move the funds and vote. We are being told by one member that this motion must be presented in written format at a meeting and read. It cannot be just a simple verbal motion. I can't seem to find anything that states this motion needs to be in writing and read at a meeting first. I do know that we won't vote on it until the next meeting. So, does this motion need to be in writing?

I would not say that it needs to be in writing. It is a best practice, however, for any "long or complicated motion" to be in writing.

"A resolution or a long or complicated motion should be prepared in advance of the meeting, if possible, and should be put into writing before it is offered." RONR (12th ed.) 4:5

Is there some problem with the motion being in writing?

[Gary Novosielski]

On 8/21/2023 at 7:52 PM, Guest Movement of Funds said:

Thank you  for responding. Our council is a small non-profit organization, providing benevolent services. We are actually going to be closing the one bank account, opening a new account and then moving the funds to the new account. We have already voted/approved the motion. of switching banks. Now we are ready to actually move the funds, which in our council, does require a motion/vote by the members at a general meeting. Yes, unfortunately we have a very strict structure that requires a motion/vote for every expenditure of funds; to include movement/ transfer of funds. Very cumbersome! We do have a Board and the Treasurer is part of that board. Basically, the Treasurer can't do anything without membership approval. So, we thought we could just call for a motion to move the funds and vote. We are being told by one member that this motion must be presented in written format at a meeting and read. It cannot be just a simple verbal motion. I can't seem to find anything that states this motion needs to be in writing and read at a meeting first. I do know that we won't vote on it until the next meeting. So, does this motion need to be in writing?

Thank you.

Yes, it does: 

The chair—either on his own initiative or at the secretary’s request—can require any main motion (10),. amendment (12), or instructions to a committee to be in writing before he states the question. [RONR (12th ed.) 4:18]

It may seem silly, but the chair can insist on it, even for a simple motion.  On the other hand, if it is a simple motion it's easy enough to put it into writing.  This motion would barely be a single line--even if you write large with a dull Sharpie®.

But what is not required is previous notice for the motion.  So there's nothing to stop you from coming to a meeting, handing your motion to the secretary, obtaining the floor and moving its adoption, and voting on it, all at the same meeting.  

Apparently this member who is claiming a variety of things hasn't been asked for a citation supporting those claims.  The percentage of time that someone who claims "Oh, that's in Robert's Rules" is actually correct, is unimpressive at best.  Make sure you know what your bylaws say, because they supersede RONR, but don't just accept any claim as fact. 

Edited August 22, 2023 at 02:03 PM by Gary Novosielski

[Joshua Katz]

On 8/22/2023 at 8:59 AM, Gary Novosielski said:

Yes, it does: 

The chair—either on his own initiative or at the secretary’s request—can require any main motion (10),. amendment (12), or instructions to a committee to be in writing before he states the question. [RONR (12th ed.) 4:18]

Where have you seen an instruction from the chair or a request from the secretary? I just see one member claiming it has to be in writing.

[Gary Novosielski]

On 8/22/2023 at 10:03 AM, Joshua Katz said:

Where have you seen an instruction from the chair or a request from the secretary? I just see one member claiming it has to be in writing.

I did not mean to imply that I had.  That's why I stressed that unsupported claims should be viewed with skepticism.  

But I suppose I did presume that the chair might be swayed by this armchair authority and require a written copy.  If there's no danger of that, then the armchair authority can be pre-ignored.

[Guest Movement of Funds]

Thank you all so very much for all your  astute assistance. Your responses make this so much easier on me to move forward. The motion will be in writing, but as Gary said, it'll probably be a one liner. When I read all your responses, it was clear to me that the safest way  on this motion is to put it in writing. Unfortunately our by-laws do state that motions regarding any related expenditures, movement of any funds must be made at one meeting, published in the minutes and then voted on the following meeting - very cumbersome, I know. Yes, all this for one member's objection.

Thank you all for your professionalism in assisting me. I certainly learned more from you all than scouring through Roberts Rules of Order.