Discussion sin Robert's Rules

[Guest Elizabeth]

If a motion is approved - for example the group decides they want to sell and prepare and sell food at a local event- and there needs to be further discussion about what food we will prepare, where we will purchase the food from, how much food we should buy, etc., where is that discussed in Roberts Rules?

[Joshua Katz]

If a motion is made that is incomplete, i.e. does not specify these details, and it is adopted, further motions should be made to address the incomplete areas. So someone should make a motion to make the food hot dogs purchased from Katz's Deli, in the amount of 3,000 such dogs, buns, and mustard, etc. If there is debate on these details, motions to amend should be used to reach the proper decision.

[Guest further discussion]

Thank you so much for the reply. It is truly appreciated and helpful. i became president of a volunteer firefighter dept a few months ago in a very small village. Our business meetings are supposed to follow Roberts Rules but i believe were are lacking in this area which makes it harder to run the meeting. i know of no one to ask for help from so your responses are very much appreciated.

Is it correct then that any discussion has to be upon a motion?, i.e, no discussion is to take place unless a motion is being discussed?

For example, at last nights meeting a member brought up during the "new business" that he was contacted by someone to see if we wanted to make the food for an upcoming event in August of 2024. Discussion ensued even though no motion was made. we decided we had lots of time to think about it.

My thinking is that he should have brought this up during the communication section of our meeting. Then, if he, or other members thought it should be discussed, they could have made a motion during the "new business" portion of our meeting.

As our meetings are run now, during "new business", "old business", chief reports, training officers reports, etc., discussions will get started on topics presented without any motions.

Another thing that happened last night is the chief, during the chief's report, started talking about hosting the local county's firefighter meeting. But, then said we shouldn't do it because we hosted it last year. I asked him if he wanted to make a motion and he said there is nothing to make a motion about. My thinking is why did we discuss this for 5 minutes if you weren't asking the group to make a decision about it. Plus, shouldn't it have been brought up in the new business and not the chief's report?

Before i start changing the way our meetings are run i want to make sure i am doing it correctly.

[Gary Novosielski]

As a new presiding officer, you would benefit greatly by getting a copy of Robert's Rules of Order Newly Revised in Brief (3rd ed.), also known as RONRIB.

It is much shorter than the full-scale book, known as RONR, but it contains the 10% of the rules that cover 90% of situations, and will give you a good basic understanding of how meetings work, how motions and amendments work, and the role of the presiding officer.

And for more unusual situations, it gives citations to the appropriate material in RONR (Robert's Rules of Order Newly Revised (12th ed.) which is the more massive and detailed reference work.  RONR is easier to work with if you already have citations to look up for your particular case. 

Yes, it's possible to read RONR from cover to cover (don't ask me how I know this) though that's not the way most people use it. 

But it is very possible and advisable to read RONRIB from cover almost to cover, and you'll come away with a firm foundation.  And we're here if anything seems confusing.

[Joshua Katz]

On 9/20/2023 at 2:22 PM, Guest further discussion said:

Is it correct then that any discussion has to be upon a motion?, i.e, no discussion is to take place unless a motion is being discussed?

 

In general, yes, with one complication. In a small board (fewer than about a dozen) or a committee, discussion without a motion is permitted. But in the general case of a deliberative assembly other than a small board, yes, you make a motion and then discuss it, with discussion limited to things germane to the motion.

On 9/20/2023 at 2:22 PM, Guest further discussion said:

For example, at last nights meeting a member brought up during the "new business" that he was contacted by someone to see if we wanted to make the food for an upcoming event in August of 2024. Discussion ensued even though no motion was made. we decided we had lots of time to think about it.

 

This statement was out of order.

On 9/20/2023 at 2:22 PM, Guest further discussion said:

My thinking is that he should have brought this up during the communication section of our meeting. Then, if he, or other members thought it should be discussed, they could have made a motion during the "new business" portion of our meeting.

 

RONR's standard order of business does not contain a "communication" section, so I will defer to your rules whether that would be proper. But during new business, it would be proper to make a motion to make the food for the event. It would also be proper to make such a motion while communications are pending if the letter is brought up then. (There are special rules about motions arising out of different sorts of reports, but personally, I wouldn't stress it. If your organization is eating with their hands, no need to emphasize the differences between salad and dinner forks.)

On 9/20/2023 at 2:22 PM, Guest further discussion said:

As our meetings are run now, during "new business", "old business", chief reports, training officers reports, etc., discussions will get started on topics presented without any motions.

 

That is, in my opinion, a great way to spend a long time at the meeting without achieving much.

On 9/20/2023 at 2:22 PM, Guest further discussion said:

Another thing that happened last night is the chief, during the chief's report, started talking about hosting the local county's firefighter meeting. But, then said we shouldn't do it because we hosted it last year. I asked him if he wanted to make a motion and he said there is nothing to make a motion about. My thinking is why did we discuss this for 5 minutes if you weren't asking the group to make a decision about it. Plus, shouldn't it have been brought up in the new business and not the chief's report?

 

Not quite: if there's no motion, then it should not be brought up during new business. It sounds to me appropriate for an officer's report. But to dispel a possible background assumption: it's perfectly normal to have business arising from officer reports, committee reports, communication, etc. Not everything should be pushed to new business. 

In a well-functioning assembly, there will be little new business. When new business is brought up, it will be frequently referred to committee, and comes back in the committee's report.

 

[Atul Kapur]

On 9/20/2023 at 1:20 PM, Guest Elizabeth said:

the group decides they want to sell and prepare and sell food at a local event- and there needs to be further discussion about [details]

This is the perfect role for a committee - a small group given the task of looking into all these details and reporting back to the main body with recommendations, in the form of motions, to the main body. This saves the larger body from spending a lot of time on details. The committee may be given the power to make decisions and put them into effect, rather than just making recommendations.

[Guest Elizabeth]

Once again, thanks for you responses. I've ordered the book. Hopefully, it will clarify things for me because right now i am a confused and overwhelmed. And, i appreciate knowing that this forum is here in case i have any more questions.