Changing the voting threshold

[Wright Stuff]

On 12/21/2023 at 6:53 AM, Joshua Katz said:

There are two exceptions: 

1. If the bylaws themselves provide for suspension.

2. When a bylaws provision is clearly in the nature of a rule of order.

Number 1 is easy. Number 2 is frustrating, particularly the use of “clearly”. It’s not clear to me (yet) how to identify those particular bylaw provisions that are in the nature of a rule of order. I would have thought that changing the voting threshold would be prohibited, but “clearly” it’s not. If you have any suggestions for identifying those provisions, I would love to hear them. If it is a matter of rote memorization, where is the list I can memorize? Thanks. 

[Josh Martin]

On 12/21/2023 at 7:07 AM, Wright Stuff said:

Number 1 is easy. Number 2 is frustrating, particularly the use of “clearly”. It’s not clear to me (yet) how to identify those particular bylaw provisions that are in the nature of a rule of order. I would have thought that changing the voting threshold would be prohibited, but “clearly” it’s not. If you have any suggestions for identifying those provisions, I would love to hear them. If it is a matter of rote memorization, where is the list I can memorize? Thanks. 

The formal definition of a rule of order is rules which "relate to the orderly transaction of business in meetings and to the duties of officers in that connection." RONR (12th ed.) 2:14

I would suggest a simple rule of thumb for this is that if it's a rule similar to the rules found in Robert's Rules of Order, it's a rule of order. Rules pertaining to voting, debate, making motions, and who serves as the presiding officer, for example, are all rules of order. There is no list to memorize.

In this connection, it must be understood that if a rule in the bylaws is in the nature of a rule of order, it is not quite that simple to say that the rule certainly can be suspended. Rather, a more accurate statement would be that it can be suspended under the same conditions as other rules of order. The other limitations on suspending the rules remain in force. Further, rules in the bylaws requiring a ballot vote cannot be suspended, unless the rule so provides.

A more complete discussion of rules that cannot be suspended can be found in RONR (12th ed.) 25:7-13.

In regard to the question of changing voting thresholds in particular, however, I would note that just because you can do something doesn't mean it's a good idea, or that it makes any sense to do so.

If the bylaws require a 2/3 vote for some action, suspending that rule will require a 2/3 vote. Further, RONR provides "In any case, no rule protecting a minority of a particular size can be suspended in the face of a negative vote as large as the minority protected by the rule." RONR (12th ed.) 25:2

This means that if the bylaws (or any rule) requires an even higher vote for some action (say, a 3/4 vote), then that same vote will be required to suspend the rule.

So at the end of the day, if 2/3 (or 3/4) or whatever wants the action to happen, it will happen, because they'll also have the votes to reject any motions to Suspend the Rules to change the voting threshold. And if less than that number wants it to happen, then it won't happen, and changing the voting threshold is unnecessary.

I suppose the one circumstance where this might come in handy is situations like an election, where an assembly needs to agree on something, and conceivably you could get 2/3 of members willing to agree that they want the election to be over with, but unwilling to agree on who to elect.

Edited December 21, 2023 at 01:30 PM by Josh Martin