RONR 15:11 Last Sentence

[Henry Lawton]

Could someone explain the last sentence in 15:11.

Here is the statement from Robert's "If motions to Commit or to Postpone were already part of a series that was pending when such an order was adopted, however, the remaining questions may be postponed or committed at the time those motions come to a vote."

What does this mean?

Thank you.

[Josh Martin]

On 3/12/2024 at 5:40 PM, Henry Lawton said:

Could someone explain the last sentence in 15:11.

Here is the statement from Robert's "If motions to Commit or to Postpone were already part of a series that was pending when such an order was adopted, however, the remaining questions may be postponed or committed at the time those motions come to a vote."

What does this mean?

The full paragraph, in context, reads as follows:

"After the adoption of an order that does provide a time for closing debate on the main question—either at a specified hour or after debate for a specified length of time, as in Form and Example (b) or (f) below—motions to Commit or to Postpone to a Certain Time are not in order, since providing a time for closing debate implies that at that time the question will be voted on. If the assembly decides, while the order is in effect, that it wishes to commit or postpone the main motion, then it may reconsider (37) and reverse the vote establishing the order or, by a two-thirds vote, it may adopt a new limitation or extension of debate that has no such restriction. If motions to Commit or to Postpone were already part of a series that was pending when such an order was adopted, however, the remaining questions may be postponed or committed at the time those motions come to a vote." RONR (12th ed.) 15:11

In other words, new motions to Commit or to Postpone to a Certain Time cannot be made after the adoption of an order "that does provide a time for closing debate on the main question—either at a specified hour or after debate for a specified length of time." However, if a motion to Commit or Postpone was already pending because it had been made prior to the motion to Limit Debate, then those motions remain valid and will be considered.

[Henry Lawton]

Thank you Josh. I had to read and reread your response to understand, however, I got.

[Shmuel Gerber]

On 3/12/2024 at 6:40 PM, Henry Lawton said:

Here is the statement from Robert's "If motions to Commit or to Postpone were already part of a series that was pending when such an order was adopted, however, the remaining questions may be postponed or committed at the time those motions come to a vote."

What does this mean?

I agree with Mr. Martin's explanation.

In this sentence, "those motions" are the motions to Commit or to Postpone. So when the book says, "the remaining questions may be postponed or committed at the time those motions come to a vote," it simply means that the motions to Commit or Postpone are voted on as they normally would be — despite the adoption of the motion to Limit Debate — and, if they are adopted, they cause the remaining questions in the series (the main motion and the other pending motions adhering to the main motion) to be committed or postponed.

For example, suppose a main motion and an amendment are pending, and it is moved to postpone the pending questions to the next meeting. While all these motions are pending, it is moved and adopted to limit debate on the main motion to 20 minutes.

The same motion to Postpone could not have been moved after adoption of this motion to Limit Debate. However, it was moved beforehand and remains pending. The last sentence of 15:11 is telling us that, in this situation, the main motion and the amendment can still be postponed to the next meeting by the assembly's voting in favor of the pending motion to Postpone.

[Henry Lawton]

Thank you, Shmuel. The example really helped me to understand.

[Dan Honemann]

On 3/12/2024 at 7:22 PM, Shmuel Gerber said:

For example, suppose a main motion and an amendment are pending, and it is moved to postpone the pending questions to the next meeting. While all these motions are pending, it is moved and adopted to limit debate on the main motion to 20 minutes.

Is this in order?

[Shmuel Gerber]

On 3/13/2024 at 7:50 PM, Dan Honemann said:

Is this in order?

I think so, although perhaps it could be worded more clearly. The intention is to limit debate on the main motion and all secondary motions (that are pending or may become pending) so that a vote will be taken after no more than 20 minutes of debate. 

[Dan Honemann]

On 3/13/2024 at 8:07 PM, Shmuel Gerber said:

I think so, although perhaps it could be worded more clearly. The intention is to limit debate on the main motion and all secondary motions (that are pending or may become pending) so that a vote will be taken after no more than 20 minutes of debate. 

But how does this mesh with the rule that the motion to limit debate must first be applied to the immediately pending motion?

[Shmuel Gerber]

On 3/13/2024 at 8:13 PM, Dan Honemann said:

But how does this mesh with the rule that the motion to limit debate must first be applied to the immediately pending motion?

It can be said to apply to all pending questions, because when the allotted time for consideration of the main motion expires, all pending questions will be put to a vote without further debate or amendment. (15:12)

Is there some other example of how the last sentence of 15:11 would apply that you think is more clearly in order? 

[Dan Honemann]

On 3/13/2024 at 8:25 PM, Shmuel Gerber said:

It can be said to apply to all pending questions, because when the allotted time for consideration of the main motion expires, all pending questions will be put to a vote without further debate or amendment. (15:12)

Is there some other example of how the last sentence of 15:11 would apply that you think is more clearly in order? 

No, I suppose not.  Your suggested motion appears to be similar to the one described in 15:19(b).