Wright Stuff Posted May 10, 2024 at 03:57 AM Report Share Posted May 10, 2024 at 03:57 AM Our political party wants to censure people for every little thing, including bad breath, it seems. It is my understanding that an organization cannot censure a person who is not a member of the organization or who is not subject to the organization's disciplinary authority. Is there a better way to explain censure? It's getting out of control. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Brown Posted May 10, 2024 at 04:30 AM Report Share Posted May 10, 2024 at 04:30 AM A non-disciplinary motion of censure, just like a motion to commend, may indeed be directed towards someone who is not a member of the organization. Censure is a form of punishment that can be imposed as part of a disciplinary proceeding, but it is also possible to adopt a non-disciplinary motion of censure which can be applied to members and nonmembers. See section 61:2 and it’s footnote and also 12:20 in RONR (12th Ed.). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J. J. Posted May 10, 2024 at 10:45 AM Report Share Posted May 10, 2024 at 10:45 AM I agree with Mr. Brown. See also "Censure: Penalty Versus Motion," Parliamentary Journal, April 2012. It is not online, but part of it was read on a YouTube video. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wright Stuff Posted May 10, 2024 at 12:02 PM Author Report Share Posted May 10, 2024 at 12:02 PM On 5/10/2024 at 6:45 AM, J. J. said: I agree with Mr. Brown. See also "Censure: Penalty Versus Motion," Parliamentary Journal, April 2012. It is not online, but part of it was read on a YouTube video. How can I find this on YouTube? What do I search for? Alternatively, is there a way to find a copy of the article? Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J. J. Posted May 10, 2024 at 02:04 PM Report Share Posted May 10, 2024 at 02:04 PM On 5/10/2024 at 8:02 AM, Wright Stuff said: How can I find this on YouTube? What do I search for? Alternatively, is there a way to find a copy of the article? Thanks. Contact the American Institute of Parliamentarians. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wright Stuff Posted May 10, 2024 at 04:22 PM Author Report Share Posted May 10, 2024 at 04:22 PM On 5/10/2024 at 10:04 AM, J. J. said: Contact the American Institute of Parliamentarians. I'm not a member. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Honemann Posted May 10, 2024 at 05:20 PM Report Share Posted May 10, 2024 at 05:20 PM On 5/9/2024 at 11:57 PM, Wright Stuff said: Our political party wants to censure people for every little thing, including bad breath, it seems. It is my understanding that an organization cannot censure a person who is not a member of the organization or who is not subject to the organization's disciplinary authority. Is there a better way to explain censure? It's getting out of control. Can you provide an example of one of these motions (retaining anonymity, of course)? I want to understand why you think such a motion would be out of order. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wright Stuff Posted May 10, 2024 at 06:40 PM Author Report Share Posted May 10, 2024 at 06:40 PM On 5/10/2024 at 1:20 PM, Dan Honemann said: Can you provide an example of one of these motions (retaining anonymity, of course)? I want to understand why you think such a motion would be out of order. I don't have an opinion as to whether it's out of order. An informed person (not a Parliamentarian, though) said that motions to censure people who are not members of the party cannot be censured. From what I'm getting from this discussion and older ones on this forum, subject to correction, is that a disciplinary motion to censure someone who is not a member of the organization is out of order. A non-disciplinary motion to censure anyone is in order. Please correct me if I'm misunderstanding. As an example, assume that a county party wants to censure a United States Senator. That Senator is not a member of the county party. The county party has no disciplinary authority over the Senator. Is such a censure by a county party of which he is not a member in order? (Ignore for purposes of this discussion the issue of whether being a member of the state party qualifies him as a member for county purposes.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Honemann Posted May 10, 2024 at 07:00 PM Report Share Posted May 10, 2024 at 07:00 PM On 5/10/2024 at 2:40 PM, Wright Stuff said: I don't have an opinion as to whether it's out of order. An informed person (not a Parliamentarian, though) said that motions to censure people who are not members of the party cannot be censured. From what I'm getting from this discussion and older ones on this forum, subject to correction, is that a disciplinary motion to censure someone who is not a member of the organization is out of order. A non-disciplinary motion to censure anyone is in order. Please correct me if I'm misunderstanding. As an example, assume that a county party wants to censure a United States Senator. That Senator is not a member of the county party. The county party has no disciplinary authority over the Senator. Is such a censure by a county party of which he is not a member in order? (Ignore for purposes of this discussion the issue of whether being a member of the state party qualifies him as a member for county purposes.) The short answer to all of this is that there is nothing at all in RONR which would prevent an organization from adopting a motion expressing its disapproval (in terms as strong as it wishes) of actions taken by a nonmember. It's not complicated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wright Stuff Posted May 10, 2024 at 07:44 PM Author Report Share Posted May 10, 2024 at 07:44 PM On 5/10/2024 at 3:00 PM, Dan Honemann said: The short answer to all of this is that there is nothing at all in RONR which would prevent an organization from adopting a motion expressing its disapproval (in terms as strong as it wishes) of actions taken by a nonmember. It's not complicated. I love short answers. Thank you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Martin Posted May 11, 2024 at 01:36 PM Report Share Posted May 11, 2024 at 01:36 PM On 5/9/2024 at 10:57 PM, Wright Stuff said: It is my understanding that an organization cannot censure a person who is not a member of the organization or who is not subject to the organization's disciplinary authority. Your understanding is incorrect. An organization is free to censure any person for any reason it wishes. On 5/9/2024 at 10:57 PM, Wright Stuff said: Is there a better way to explain censure? Censure is a formal expression of the assembly's disapproval. On 5/10/2024 at 1:40 PM, Wright Stuff said: An informed person (not a Parliamentarian, though) said that motions to censure people who are not members of the party cannot be censured. Well, it may be that this person's opinion is based on something in your party's rules, and I can't speak to that. But it is not correct with respect to RONR. On 5/10/2024 at 1:40 PM, Wright Stuff said: From what I'm getting from this discussion and older ones on this forum, subject to correction, is that a disciplinary motion to censure someone who is not a member of the organization is out of order. A non-disciplinary motion to censure anyone is in order. Please correct me if I'm misunderstanding. Yes, I think this is correct. An organization can't discipline someone who is not in some manner subject to the control of the organization. (It would not necessarily need to be a member. Nonmember employees or officers could also be disciplined, for example.) On 5/10/2024 at 1:40 PM, Wright Stuff said: As an example, assume that a county party wants to censure a United States Senator. That Senator is not a member of the county party. The county party has no disciplinary authority over the Senator. Is such a censure by a county party of which he is not a member in order? (Ignore for purposes of this discussion the issue of whether being a member of the state party qualifies him as a member for county purposes.) Yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts