President - above bylaws?

[Guest Suddenly Susan]

The president of our organization is asserting that when bylaws are unclear, or do not specify authority or action, that she has the authority to make decisions in the absence of direction by the bylaws.

I believe this to be entirely untrue. I have asked where in the bylaws the office is authorized to make such decisions. And the president refuses to answer my question.

Question #1: How do I alert the membership that the president is acting outside the bylaws?

The president is responding to me by accusing me of not being a voting member, and therefore, she does not have to address my concerns. Membership is based upon 1)paying dues and 2)holding a license by the state. My license is currently in process of renewal - the state has been sitting on my paperwork for 6 weeks - and I have fulfilled all the requirements for that license.

Question #2: Because our bylaws do not contain a provision for removal of membership by status of license (as it does for non dues paying members), can my voting rights be removed by decree of the president, or does the membership have to vote to remove my member rights?

[Robert B Fish]

The president of our organization is asserting that when bylaws are unclear, or do not specify authority or action, that she has the authority to make decisions in the absence of direction by the bylaws.

I believe this to be entirely untrue. I have asked where in the bylaws the office is authorized to make such decisions. And the president refuses to answer my question.

Question #1: How do I alert the membership that the president is acting outside the bylaws?

The president is responding to me by accusing me of not being a voting member, and therefore, she does not have to address my concerns. Membership is based upon 1)paying dues and 2)holding a license by the state. My license is currently in process of renewal - the state has been sitting on my paperwork for 6 weeks - and I have fulfilled all the requirements for that license.

Question #2: Because our bylaws do not contain a provision for removal of membership by status of license (as it does for non dues paying members), can my voting rights be removed by decree of the president, or does the membership have to vote to remove my member rights?

#1. HOW you communicate would be more obvious to you than to us. However, you can raise a point of order at any meeting (assuming you are a member of the group meeting at that time). If the president rules that your point of order is not well taken, you can appeal the ruling.

#2. See FAQ#20.

-Bob

[Guest Susan]

#1. HOW you communicate would be more obvious to you than to us. However, you can raise a point of order at any meeting (assuming you are a member of the group meeting at that time). If the president rules that your point of order is not well taken, you can appeal the ruling.

#2. See FAQ#20.

-Bob

What if this behavior is occurring outside of a meeting? For instance - an email to all members was sent by the president saying that since the bylaws did not designate whether one person could be nominated for more than one office, and our nominations resulted in an individual being nominated to two offices, the president decided to ask the nominee to choose one office to be nominated to.

(sorry I couldn't phrase that sentence better)

I questioned this immediately. And I've been getting the run around since. I'm very concerned when action is taken outside of a meeting - the officers of this group have fallen into the very unfortunate habit of making decisions between meetings. Some of these decisions appear to not be outlined by our bylaws - and the officers' rationale is: if the bylaws do not say anything, then I can do whatever I feel is the best for the organization.

Any member who questions the officers "best intentions" is accused of being an enemy of the organization - which brings me back to the the next question:

Question 2 - I was asking about the procedure for *my* removal as a member. Because I believe the president is questioning my voting rights as a member. Is the procedure for removing me the same as for removing the president? If so, I think that is terribly exciting.

Thank you for this site - I don't always understand the humor - but this site is very helpful.

[Josh Martin]

The president of our organization is asserting that when bylaws are unclear, or do not specify authority or action, that she has the authority to make decisions in the absence of direction by the bylaws.

The President has it backwards. The President only has the authority granted by the Bylaws. (RONR, 10th ed., pg. 440, lines 21-25)

Question #1: How do I alert the membership that the president is acting outside the bylaws?

Well, the official way to draw attention to it is by raising a Point of Order at a meeting or initiating disciplinary proceedings.

Question #2: Because our bylaws do not contain a provision for removal of membership by status of license (as it does for non dues paying members), can my voting rights be removed by decree of the president, or does the membership have to vote to remove my member rights?

The latter, unless the Bylaws grant the President the authority to remove your voting rights.

What if this behavior is occurring outside of a meeting?

You still won't be able to formally do anything until the next meeting, but you are free to communicate with members outside of the meeting.

Question 2 - I was asking about the procedure for *my* removal as a member. Because I believe the president is questioning my voting rights as a member. Is the procedure for removing me the same as for removing the president? If so, I think that is terribly exciting.

The removal procedure for officers is not necessarily the same as the procedure for removing members. Depending on the wording of the Bylaws, as seen in FAQ #20, it may be possible to remove an officer by rescinding the election rather than a formal disciplinary procedure. Removing members, on the other hand, always requires the formal disciplinary procedure of Ch. XX, unless a different procedure is specified in the Bylaws. Additionally, expulsion of a member requires a 2/3 vote. Removal of an officer requires only a majority vote if the trial procedure is followed or if previous notice is provided of a motion to rescind the election.

In short, it is generally easier to remove someone from office than to remove them from membership.

[Guest Suddenly Susan]

In short, it is generally easier to remove someone from office than to remove them from membership.

I thought this was true. I am not threatened by the president's assertion that she has the authority to expel me upon her will, but I was wondering if I should be.

Thank you.

Susan

[Guest Susan]

I am tempted to say:

"The president has no more authority to issue a decree for my expulsion than I do for hers."

Because the members believe and/or are afraid of the president (you would think learned our democratic process from North Korea the way this organization functions!!!) - most are unwilling to speak up.

Susan

[David A Foulkes]

I am tempted to say:

"The president has no more authority to issue a decree for my expulsion than I do for hers."

Because the members believe and/or are afraid of the president (you would think learned our democratic process from North Korea the way this organization functions!!!) - most are unwilling to speak up.

Susan

This is often the case when members are coming from a position of isolation (one of me against all of them), or of a minority number. If you can talk it up around the group and there's a majority, or even a goodly number, that becomes an empowering factor for them, as well as dis-empowering for the president (Chair Jong Il). Short of dismembering yourself and joining up with a different organization (if that's even possible), this may be your last best hope at getting back the control you (the society as as whole) rightfully deserve. Rock the boat, but don't let go of the oar.

[hmtcastle]

Short of dismembering yourself . . .

???

If she joins again would she be remembering herself?

[David A Foulkes]

???

If she joins again would she be remembering herself?

That depends on the bylaws, which is beyond the scope of this forum, but I'll go along with you on it .... for now.

[Guest Susan]

If you can talk it up around the group and there's a majority, or even a goodly number, that becomes an empowering factor for them, as well as dis-empowering for the president (Chair Jong Il).

This is too apt an analogy! The current president was (s)elected at the last meeting, the immediate past president (who reigned for more years than most can remember) has been (s)elected to a new director position in a new executive committee which has authorized some decision making on administrative issues.

Apparently, this exec committee believes removing a nominee from a ballot an "administrative issue."

Poor Chair Jong Un! - truly in a no-win situation.

Susan

PS Susan is not my real name. If an officer discovers my correspondence here, I worry about waking up to a horse head on my pillow in the morning.

Thanks again. Keeping hold of the oar.

[Gary Novosielski]

PS Susan is not my real name.

Pseusan?

[hmtcastle]

Pseusan?

I believe the "p" is silent (as in "pshrimp").

[David A Foulkes]

I believe the "p" is silent (as in "pshrimp").

Or as my momma used to say, it's silent like the "P" in bed.

[Dan Honemann]

Or as my momma used to say, it's silent like the "P" in bed.

...or decay in fish.