ballot

[riverrat]

I belong to an HOA that is required to conduct its' buisiness according to Rules. The general election is being held next month. I recieved my ballot and was surprised to see that on the front page were printed the candidates and the voting instructions with the redquirement that you designate if it is a mail in ballot or a proxy, which is printed on the back of the same paper. The ballot is required to be placed in an envelope and sealed and if the instructions are not followed the ballot will be thrown out. My interpertation is that if you are required to note if is a mail in ballot and it is in a sealed envelope then it would stand to reason that they would need to open the ballot to check if it was marked along with the envelope that it came in thereby violating the secrecy of the ballot. Am I correct?

[Tim Wynn]

I belong to an HOA that is required to conduct its' buisiness according to Rules.

Which rules, I wonder. RONR does not authorize absentee voting of any kind -- mail-in or proxy. Your bylaws would have to authorize this, and in that case, your organization should have custom rules to govern the process.

The general election is being held next month. I recieved my ballot and was surprised to see that on the front page were printed the candidates and the voting instructions with the redquirement that you designate if it is a mail in ballot or a proxy, which is printed on the back of the same paper. The ballot is required to be placed in an envelope and sealed and if the instructions are not followed the ballot will be thrown out. My interpertation is that if you are required to note if is a mail in ballot and it is in a sealed envelope then it would stand to reason that they would need to open the ballot to check if it was marked along with the envelope that it came in thereby violating the secrecy of the ballot. Am I correct?

Robert's Rules outlines a method by which the secrecy of a mail-in ballot can be maintained. See RONR(10th ed.), p. 410, l. 17 - p. 411, l. 16. Still, your bylaws would need to authorize the use of such a voting method.

Also, RONR advised that an organization should never permit votes of atendees to be mixed with mail-in ballots. See RONR(10th ed.), p. 409, l. 4-7.

[Gary Novosielski]

I belong to an HOA that is required to conduct its' buisiness according to Rules. The general election is being held next month. I recieved my ballot and was surprised to see that on the front page were printed the candidates and the voting instructions with the redquirement that you designate if it is a mail in ballot or a proxy, which is printed on the back of the same paper. The ballot is required to be placed in an envelope and sealed and if the instructions are not followed the ballot will be thrown out. My interpertation is that if you are required to note if is a mail in ballot and it is in a sealed envelope then it would stand to reason that they would need to open the ballot to check if it was marked along with the envelope that it came in thereby violating the secrecy of the ballot. Am I correct?

No.

Eventually the ballot must be opened, but the point of the two-envelope method is to prevent identifying the voter. If the designation were NOT sealed in the inner ballot, it WOULD be possible to identify the voter. But the inner ballot is NOT opened when received, for exactly that reason.

The outer envelope return address is only used to determine that the person casting the ballot is a member, and entitled to vote. No details about the contents, including anything that might identify how they voted, whether they voted properly, or even whether they voted at all, should be discernible without opening the inner envelope.

All the inner envelopes, which have no identifying marks, are mixed together, unopened; when the time comes to count them, only then are they opened. If any are found to be blank, spoiled, illegible, or otherwise defective, they are handled in accordance with the rules, depending on what the problem is. But the identity of the person responsible for the error is not known.

[hmtcastle]

The outer envelope return address is only used to determine that the person casting the ballot is a member, and entitled to vote.

Actually, per p. 410, I think it's the signature on the inner envelope, and not the return address on the outer envelope, that determines the voter's eligibility.

The return address is only of interest to the USPS.

[Gary Novosielski]

Actually, per p. 410, I think it's the signature on the inner envelope, and not the return address on the outer envelope, that determines the voter's eligibility.

The return address is only of interest to the USPS.

You're absolutely right. And a signature is clearly better than a simple return address.

Unfortunately that allows a fleeting opportunity to observe the vote which would not exist if the signature were elsewhere. Granted the signature is on the front, and the envelope is typically opened from the back, and theoretically the ballot is folded properly, and of course all tellers are scrupulously honest, but that's a lot of assumptions.

Of course, moving the signature to the outside (or to the inside, such as inside the flap) of the outer envelope might solve one problem and introduce others. I guess it only reconfirms what (I think) has been mathematically proven: that there is no perfect method of election.

But I do wonder how the procedure might have evolved if Post-It notes had been invented in 1915.

[riverrat]

No.

Eventually the ballot must be opened, but the point of the two-envelope method is to prevent identifying the voter. If the designation were NOT sealed in the inner ballot, it WOULD be possible to identify the voter. But the inner ballot is NOT opened when received, for exactly that reason.

The outer envelope return address is only used to determine that the person casting the ballot is a member, and entitled to vote. No details about the contents, including anything that might identify how they voted, whether they voted properly, or even whether they voted at all, should be discernible without opening the inner envelope.

All the inner envelopes, which have no identifying marks, are mixed together, unopened; when the time comes to count them, only then are they opened. If any are found to be blank, spoiled, illegible, or otherwise defective, they are handled in accordance with the rules, depending on what the problem is. But the identity of the person responsible for the error is not known.