Guest marly Posted January 20, 2011 at 06:41 PM Report Share Posted January 20, 2011 at 06:41 PM I have reviewed statements on Voting by Mail and Proxy voting in RONR.My concern is where can I find who appoints the Tellers and when. Our Board would like to amend the bylaws and have sent out ballots with return envelope for the ballot to be enclosed in. The last day of voting is the last day of March at 5:00PM. This seems like a lot of time and the place where ballots are to be opened was not revealed.Ballot just says" your ballot will not be counted if not received by March 31 at 5:00pm.I have asked to be a teller and have not had a response. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Harrison Posted January 20, 2011 at 06:50 PM Report Share Posted January 20, 2011 at 06:50 PM I have reviewed statements on Voting by Mail and Proxy voting in RONR.My concern is where can I find who appoints the Tellers and when. Our Board would like to amend the bylaws and have sent out ballots with return envelope for the ballot to be enclosed in. The last day of voting is the last day of March at 5:00PM. This seems like a lot of time and the place where ballots are to be opened was not revealed.Ballot just says" your ballot will not be counted if not received by March 31 at 5:00pm.I have asked to be a teller and have not had a response.The Chair appoints the tellers (RONR p. 400). If absentee voting is allowed under the bylaws they should spell out the details on how and when the tellers would be appointed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmtcastle Posted January 20, 2011 at 07:08 PM Report Share Posted January 20, 2011 at 07:08 PM Our Board would like to amend the bylaws and have sent out ballots with return envelope for the ballot to be enclosed in. So your bylaws do not currently authorize absentee voting?Ballot just says" your ballot will not be counted if not received by March 31 at 5:00pm.So your bylaws do authorize absentee voting?And does your board have the authority to amend your bylaws? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest marly Posted January 21, 2011 at 12:58 AM Report Share Posted January 21, 2011 at 12:58 AM So your bylaws do not currently authorize absentee voting?So your bylaws do authorize absentee voting? Bylaws allow voting by Proxy or in person at annual meetings.And does your board have the authority to amend your bylaws? Board does not have authority to amend bylaws. To amend bylaws we need 67% of Voting Members...by proxy or in person or by written vote according to our bylaws.There is nothing about tellers being appointed by board.However tellers are appointed by Presiding officer at annual meeting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest marly Posted January 21, 2011 at 02:22 AM Report Share Posted January 21, 2011 at 02:22 AM The Chair appoints the tellers (RONR p. 400). If absentee voting is allowed under the bylaws they should spell out the details on how and when the tellers would be appointed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest marly Posted January 21, 2011 at 02:35 AM Report Share Posted January 21, 2011 at 02:35 AM Nothing in bylaws mention tellers. Bylaws do mention RONR as default.With RONR as default, RONR addresses tellers but in a non absentee ballot environment.Bylaws allow Proxy/or in person on Director voting and mail in ballots on bylaws amendments.So were does one go if tellers are not in bylaws? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmtcastle Posted January 21, 2011 at 02:43 AM Report Share Posted January 21, 2011 at 02:43 AM So were does one go if tellers are not in bylaws?One goes to RONR. Even if the ballots are mailed in, and even if those absentee ballots are unwisely combined with votes cast in person (either by a member who's present or by a proxy holder), the ballots still have to be counted. And that's still the job of the tellers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest marly Posted January 21, 2011 at 07:16 PM Report Share Posted January 21, 2011 at 07:16 PM Now if I can convice board that tellers should be appointed TO OPEN and COUNT ballots .Management company is collecting ballots and has always opened them for the board. I have said NO!!What RONR cite do I use to back up my objection to opening ballots B/$ end of voting period.marly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Novosielski Posted January 21, 2011 at 07:21 PM Report Share Posted January 21, 2011 at 07:21 PM Now if I can convice board that tellers should be appointed TO OPEN and COUNT ballots .Management company is collecting ballots and has always opened them for the board. I have said NO!!What RONR cite do I use to back up my objection to opening ballots B/$ end of voting period.That they are not members, and non-members do nothing without permission. You do pay them, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest marly Posted January 21, 2011 at 07:59 PM Report Share Posted January 21, 2011 at 07:59 PM Gary, the President has allowed the Managment company to open ballots for election of directors. Over my objections. However this bylaws amendment is by mail ballot and from what I have read in RONR ballots are counted after voting has ended by appointed tellers PERIOD. That tells me ballots can be collected by our managment company and after the board appoints tellers. The tellers open and record ballots. or am I using commonsense and miss the boards reason to have managementhandle these affairs.marly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmtcastle Posted January 21, 2011 at 08:11 PM Report Share Posted January 21, 2011 at 08:11 PM the President has allowed the Managment company to open ballots for election of directors.Per RONR (p. 400) the chair (i.e. the president) appoints the tellers. So no problem there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Novosielski Posted January 21, 2011 at 09:58 PM Report Share Posted January 21, 2011 at 09:58 PM Gary, the President has allowed the Managment company to open ballots for election of directors. Over my objections. However this bylaws amendment is by mail ballot and from what I have read in RONR ballots are counted after voting has ended by appointed tellers PERIOD. That tells me ballots can be collected by our managment company and after the board appoints tellers. The tellers open and record ballots. or am I using commonsense and miss the boards reason to have managementhandle these affairs.marlyApparently the president has appointed the management company to be the tellers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest marly Posted January 21, 2011 at 11:53 PM Report Share Posted January 21, 2011 at 11:53 PM Interesting, and the results reported by the management company, are non-members, paid by the association stands as reported.This combination seem's rather vunerable to each other.No wonder my objections were called out of order. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Novosielski Posted January 22, 2011 at 02:39 AM Report Share Posted January 22, 2011 at 02:39 AM Interesting, and the results reported by the management company, are non-members, paid by the association stands as reported.This combination seem's rather vunerable to each other.No wonder my objections were called out of order.Well, you are free, in such situations, to move for a recount of the votes, or causing votes to be counted at a meeting, before the assembly or any number of other remedies you may think of, but you're going to need a majority supporting you to pull it off. Motions regarding elections or voting are not inherently out of order. Mere "objections" sometimes are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Martin Posted January 22, 2011 at 09:01 AM Report Share Posted January 22, 2011 at 09:01 AM No wonder my objections were called out of order.You can't just object because the President didn't actually violate any rules. If you have a majority on your side, follow Mr. Novosielski's suggestions next time. If you have enough people on your side for a 2/3 vote, you can Suspend the Rules and have the assembly elect the tellers committee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robert conway Posted January 22, 2011 at 06:52 PM Report Share Posted January 22, 2011 at 06:52 PM This mail-in ballot is for by-laws amendment needing 67% of voting members.Letter and ballot mailed to all Voting Members.By-laws specificaly state RONR governs unless in conflict Federal, State or Declarent. RONR does not conflictMy objections....follow:No meeting is scheduled the day the Mail-in ballots are to be opened at 5:00PM.No voting members will be in the tellers office.The President might be there?There is no ballot control here to make sure ballots are not opened B/4 Voting closes.(The Hen House is open) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Novosielski Posted January 22, 2011 at 07:20 PM Report Share Posted January 22, 2011 at 07:20 PM This mail-in ballot is for by-laws amendment needing 67% of voting members.Letter and ballot mailed to all Voting Members.By-laws specificaly state RONR governs unless in conflict Federal, State or Declarent. RONR does not conflictMy objections....follow:No meeting is scheduled the day the Mail-in ballots are to be opened at 5:00PM.No voting members will be in the tellers office.The President might be there?There is no ballot control here to make sure ballots are not opened B/4 Voting closes.(The Hen House is open)Agreed.But rules, even good ones, do not enforce themselves. You, and presumably other members, are going to have to take action to change the behaviors you dislike, by one of the methods we have recommended to you, in time to affect the outcome. Many people are disappointed to learn that allowing bad things to be done with no objection, and then looking for some rule after the fact to undo the damage retroactively, is usually an unsuccessful tactic.Learn the rules, get a copy of RONRIB, read it (in an evening, or at most two), and you'll be prepared to object or rise to a point of order when things are about to go wrong and avoid the wreck instead of mourning the wreckage. For remedies which require a majority, or a 2/3 vote, to invoke, you'll have to hone your political skills, and your powers of persuasion. Often, simply having a working knowledge of parliamentary procedure can help you open other folks eyes to trouble on the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Martin Posted January 22, 2011 at 08:53 PM Report Share Posted January 22, 2011 at 08:53 PM But rules, even good ones, do not enforce themselves.While it seems that the President and the tellers have exercised poor judgment in carrying out their duties, it is still not clear to me that any rule has been violated (yet). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robert conway Posted January 22, 2011 at 09:30 PM Report Share Posted January 22, 2011 at 09:30 PM I have two months to stop the crash. Bringing to the voting member's attention.I have RONRIN.Josh "not yet" is most scary, like the bomb has been dropped and I am riding it to the ground trying to find the igniter.Thanks for the info...marly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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