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Nominations for council president are not debatable


Guest Jim Brady

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larry, how can the first organizational meeting of the year for our local idiots on the common council have "unfinishe business" on the agenda?

there are new members being sworn in that evening who were not part of any previous "business". How can they be expected to vote yes or no on that evening?

Once they are sworn in, they are board members. Board members can and should vote.

I expect them to vote. You should too.

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Once they are sworn in, they are board members. Board members can and should vote.

I expect them to vote. You should too.

Well, I expect them to vote as well, although I wouldn't blame them if what they voted on were motions to Postpone Definitely. I think there's some merit in the idea that the board members should take a closer look at what exactly they are voting on. :)

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Well, I expect them to vote as well, although I wouldn't blame them if what they voted on were motions to Postpone Definitely. I think there's some merit in the idea that the board members should take a closer look at what exactly they are voting on. :)

Thanks again Josh. I am quite certain that two of the new members will motion to do so.

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Well, I expect them to vote as well, although I wouldn't blame them if what they voted on were motions to Postpone Definitely. I think there's some merit in the idea that the board members should take a closer look at what exactly they are voting on. :)

That's commendable, but so is the concept that new board members should take it upon themselves to get up to speed as soon as possible. Depending on the nature of the organization, there may issues of critical importance, payroll, insurance, legal matters, that cannot afford weeks or months for new board members to do their homework.

Presumably, candidates for office would have a fair idea of the sort of things they will find on their plate, should they be elected.

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That's commendable, but so is the concept that new board members should take it upon themselves to get up to speed as soon as possible. Depending on the nature of the organization, there may issues of critical importance, payroll, insurance, legal matters, that cannot afford weeks or months for new board members to do their homework.

Indeed, and the board should certainly consider such factors when the motion to Postpone Definitely is offered.

Presumably, candidates for office would have a fair idea of the sort of things they will find on their plate, should they be elected.

The degree to which candidates are (or can be) prepared for the business to come before them will depend upon the characteristics of the particular organization, including such factors as the secrecy of the board and the quality of the association's transition mechanisms.

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Well, I expect them to vote as well, although I wouldn't blame them if what they voted on were motions to Postpone Definitely. I think there's some merit in the idea that the board members should take a closer look at what exactly they are voting on. :)

In the above example of Mr. Brady's agenda I am curious as to how the oath of office and the vote for council president are listed under unfinished business for the annual meeting. Can you tell me if there are any other items that are out of the normal order on this agenda? The whole set up seems peculiar to me and just looking for an opinion.

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In the above example of Mr. Brady's agenda I am curious as to how the oath of office and the vote for council president are listed under unfinished business for the annual meeting. Can you tell me if there are any other items that are out of the normal order on this agenda? The whole set up seems peculiar to me and just looking for an opinion.

Actually, the oath and vote would normally be done as the first two items of business. This meeting appears to proceed half way with no presiding officer.

Clearly these items are not Unfinished Business, since they were not pending at the last meeting. And the agenda does not even have a section for New Business, which is not that unusual for a reorganization meeting, but it ought to be there for regular meetings.

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Actually, the oath and vote would normally be done as the first two items of business. This meeting appears to proceed half way with no presiding officer.

Clearly these items are not Unfinished Business, since they were not pending at the last meeting. And the agenda does not even have a section for New Business, which is not that unusual for a reorganization meeting, but it ought to be there for regular meetings.

Who would be the presiding officer during the vote for council president, the mayor, the president in limbo, or someone else?

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Who would be the presiding officer during the vote for council president, the mayor, the president in limbo, or someone else?

Typically the oath would be administered by, and the election for president conducted by, the council clerk/secretary. But if the mayor customarily presides over council meetings, that might account for the apparent anomaly.

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Mr Brady, as Chris H prudently advised, get your ducks in order before the meeting. Be ready for a scrap, unless the council president can be brought to his senses beforehand.

I suggest that if the council president doesn't get back to pronto, spread your note around the council. And maybe the citizenry.

And don't even think you're stuck with that "agenda." See <url=http://www.robertsrules.com/faq.html?#14FAQ #14, "How can I get an item on the agenda for a meeting?" at ... um ...

Any comments on the annual meeting agenda? how is this one different than a typical annual agenda? how can it be improved? thanks for your help again.

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Mr Brady, as Chris H prudently advised, get your ducks in order before the meeting. Be ready for a scrap, unless the council president can be brought to his senses beforehand.

I suggest that if the council president doesn't get back to pronto, spread your note around the council. And maybe the citizenry.

And don't even think you're stuck with that "agenda." See <url=http://www.robertsrules.com/faq.html?#14FAQ #14, "How can I get an item on the agenda for a meeting?" at ... um ...

Any comments on the annual meeting agenda? How is this one different than a typical annual agenda? How can it be improved? Again, thanks for your help.

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Any comments on the annual meeting agenda? How is this one different than a typical annual agenda? How can it be improved? Again, thanks for your help.

Agendas are not necessary in most organizations (RONR pp. 360-363) although it may be in your instance. In most cases a Standard Order of Business will serve your purposes (RONR p. 25, pp. 342-349).

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Mr Brady, as Chris H prudently advised, get your ducks in order before the meeting. Be ready for a scrap, unless the council president can be brought to his senses beforehand.

I suggest that if the council president doesn't get back to pronto, spread your note around the council. And maybe the citizenry.

And don't even think you're stuck with that "agenda." See <url=http://www.robertsrules.com/faq.html?#14FAQ #14, "How can I get an item on the agenda for a meeting?" at ... um ...

Hey Gary and Chris - the president acknowledged that to make nominations is dabatable. Thanks again for your help. The annual meeting is this Monday. The current president sent me the following

" Jim-Your point in regards to the notion that nominations are not debatable is acknowledged and understood.

Historically, the incoming Council members have gathered in Rm. 119 prior to the Annual Meeting. This is not considered a regular meeting and is handled in a similar way as our Pre-Council meetings that are held between the Committee of the Whole and Regular Council meeting on the 2nd and 4th Tuesdays of each month, although there have been times when we have skipped this Pre-Council due to time constraints. Since no business takes place, the officials & media have traditionally not participated. There is no agenda, as we briefly do a quick run-through of the Regular Council Meeting agenda and answer any questions or concerns from those present.

Kelly Sweet sent out a notice to all of us on Thursday regarding the Annual meeting, so you should have received it by now.

For this gathering, we can discuss the Council presidency at that time to determine who may be nominated and if that person (s) would have a majority to be elected.

So, if we can get together in room 119 around 6 pm Monday, and then proceed to the Council chambers for the Annual meeting, that would be great. Your attendance is not required, but I would like both of you to be there if you can make it."

Since I just got elected -- could someone please let me know your opinion about this "gathering" before the annual meeting. Anything that I should be looking into. Should I go? Should the press be notified? Can I use my camcorder to record the "gathering". Please give me some advise on this. Thanks again.

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Hey Gary and Chris - the president acknowledged that to make nominations is dabatable. Thanks again for your help. The annual meeting is this Monday. The current president sent me the following

" Jim-Your point in regards to the notion that nominations are not debatable is acknowledged and understood.

Historically, the incoming Council members have gathered in Rm. 119 prior to the Annual Meeting. This is not considered a regular meeting and is handled in a similar way as our Pre-Council meetings that are held between the Committee of the Whole and Regular Council meeting on the 2nd and 4th Tuesdays of each month, although there have been times when we have skipped this Pre-Council due to time constraints. Since no business takes place, the officials & media have traditionally not participated. There is no agenda, as we briefly do a quick run-through of the Regular Council Meeting agenda and answer any questions or concerns from those present.

Kelly Sweet sent out a notice to all of us on Thursday regarding the Annual meeting, so you should have received it by now.

For this gathering, we can discuss the Council presidency at that time to determine who may be nominated and if that person (s) would have a majority to be elected.

So, if we can get together in room 119 around 6 pm Monday, and then proceed to the Council chambers for the Annual meeting, that would be great. Your attendance is not required, but I would like both of you to be there if you can make it."

Since I just got elected -- could someone please let me know your opinion about this "gathering" before the annual meeting. Anything that I should be looking into. Should I go? Should the press be notified? Can I use my camcorder to record the "gathering". Please give me some advise on this. Thanks again.

Hi again! The president is calling this "gathering" similar to pre-council meetings that are held between the Committee of the Whole and the Common Council Meeting. Here is a part of a recent agenda from the city

"REGULAR MEETING OF THE COMMON COUNCIL

Tuesday, December 28, 2010

(Pre-Council will be held at 7:15 p.m. in Room 119)"

The difference is this "gathering" is not on the agenda for the annual meeting. Just wanted to give you some info on how the pre-council meetings are listed for everyone. Wasn't sure if this "gathering had to be handled in a certain way. Thanks again. Monday is almost here and will soon be off this topic. I really do appreciate your help.

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Since I just got elected -- could someone please let me know your opinion about this "gathering" before the annual meeting. Anything that I should be looking into. Should I go? Should the press be notified? Can I use my camcorder to record the "gathering". Please give me some advise on this. Thanks again.

In some states such a meeting would very possibly violate the "Sunshine Laws", usually known by a title such as the Open Public Meetings Act, or the like. Even though no votes are taken, business is being discussed which, in some jurisdictions, crosses the line where the public has a right to know. Your board attorney should know, or know better, but you're not on the board yet.

Does your state have some Municipalites Association of which different town councils are members? They would have advice. Or google for Sunshine Laws <your state>.

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Since I just got elected -- could someone please let me know your opinion about this "gathering" before the annual meeting. Anything that I should be looking into. Should I go? Should the press be notified? Can I use my camcorder to record the "gathering". Please give me some advise on this. Thanks again.

Nothing in RONR has any bearing on a pre-meeting gathering. As noted, there may be state or local laws which apply to such a situation. The city attorney or the office of the state's Secretary of State would be good contacts.

No agenda or business goes on in room 119? Come on Mr. President, what do you call a straw poll vote for council president?

It is not clear to me that a straw poll is being taken, but even if it was, that is not "business." The council is not, as far as I can determine, conducting any business at the pre-meeting, merely discussing future business to be conducted by the council. This violates no rule in RONR, but may conflict with state or local laws. Such topics are, however, beyond the scope of this forum.

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Nothing in RONR has any bearing on a pre-meeting gathering. As noted, there may be state or local laws which apply to such a situation. The city attorney or the office of the state's Secretary of State would be good contacts.

It is not clear to me that a straw poll is being taken, but even if it was, that is not "business." The council is not, as far as I can determine, conducting any business at the pre-meeting, merely discussing future business to be conducted by the council. This violates no rule in RONR, but may conflict with state or local laws. Such topics are, however, beyond the scope of this forum.

I have reviewed the NYS Open Meetings Law and will contact the NYS Dept of State regarding this "gathering".

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After an individual is nominated for the council presidency, how and when does the debate process begin and what is the format? And is the process repeated for the second or even third nomination?

RONR is less than perfectly specific on this point. Some have suggested that it makes sense to wait until nominations are complete (closed), and then allow members to speak in debate on whichever candidates they want to.

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Who would be in charge of following such a suggestion,

The members of the body ultimately.

and are there other suggestiions which may be followed?

There are many different ways to do it such as opening each individual nomination to debate, or establishing a Q&A period for the candidates, or a Q&A period then further debate on the candidates, etc. The body should establish some rules governing how nominations will be debated.

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