Angie N

Can someone please explain the difference between a motion to eliminate something vs a motion not to do something? 

I thought motions had to be in the affirmative. 

4 hours ago, Gary Novosielski said:

That's not really the problem.  The board had no right to see the report if the committee reports to the membership.

The problem is that the president allegedly did see the report, or at least claims to have seen it.  The committee does not report to the president, so I don't understand the relationship between the president and the committee. 

The budget committee was involved because the president believed the proposal should be further researched by them. I don't know of any other relationship. 

On 9/7/2020 at 2:50 PM, Gary Novosielski said:

Well, they would not need explicit authority to refer to committees which report to them, but that does not give the president unilateral power to do so.  It's not clear what sort of committee this is, or to whom it reports.  If it reports to the membership, the board appears to be overstepping. 

The problem here seems to have been created by getting the board involved in the first place.

It's a standing committee that reports to the membership.

The proposal was sent to the board for potential feedback. 

On 9/7/2020 at 2:46 PM, Gary Novosielski said:

So the president, but not the board, received the report of the committee?  And the president merely paraphrased the report?  This is pretty sloppy.  It sounds like the president is presuming powers which she does not possess, in more than one instance.

That is correct! The board did not see the report. 

13 minutes ago, Atul Kapur said:

 

 

 

The facts Mr. Honemann has elicited may change my advice. I don't presume to speak for him (or presume that I am clear on the point he is making) but, if the board has the authority to refer items to this committee or to give instructions to it, then it sounds like they did that when the president said she would follow up to have the committee add information to their report.

Our bylaws does not give authority to the board refer to committees

10 minutes ago, Atul Kapur said:

 

First, we haven't been told that this was a standing committee (a reasonable assumption, but not yet verified).

Second, I don't read RONR (12th ed.) 50:8 to say that all standing committee's have that authority. If a standing committee is to have that authority, then it must be named in the bylaws or a special rule of order, but I don't see that the reverse is necessarily true. In fact, we are told in 50:9 that if a standing committee does not have that authority, then it can be created by a standing rule.

Yes it was referred to a standing committee. 

Unfortunately no. 

9 minutes ago, Daniel H. Honemann said:

I still think it would be helpful to know exactly what happened at the Board meeting when, apparently, this committee initially submitted its report.

The President said she received the report of the committee and they unanimously voted against the proposal. There were a couple questions as to why. The president said she will follow up with the committee to include in their report and present to the general membership. That's exactly what happened

3 minutes ago, Atul Kapur said:

Your organization has gone a long way down the wrong route, so we have to do a bit of work to get you onto the right path. It appears the error was that the president asked the committee to consider the proposal. I did not use the word "referred" because the president does not have that authority. At the membership meeting, the member can move their motion during New Business. If the president calls on the committee to make their report, or the committee chair attempts to do so on their own, then someone should raise a Point of Order saying that the committee had no authority to consider the matter and, therefore, it would not be in order to present the committee's report.

 

This assumes that your bylaws do not give the committee the authority to consider matters on its own volition.

Thank you! Your response is very helpful as the committee report will come before the new business. 

20 minutes ago, Joshua Katz said:

If you don't mind, I'd like to back up a bit.

What is this person a member of - the board or the organization? If the board, the person should, unless a rule prevents it, just make the motion at a meeting. If the organization, then the person has no right, unless a rule says otherwise, to require the board to discuss something. (Neither does a board member unless someone else agrees, of course.) So either the President did something unauthorized by unilaterally committing the item to a committee (sort of), or the President did more than he needed to to give the item full consideration. Which it is depends on the circumstances. 

But then, it seems, the person actually wants to make the motion at a membership meeting. So why was it sent to the board? Regardless, the President has no authority, unless your rules say otherwise, to commit a motion on behalf of the general membership, any more than he has that authority vis a vis the board. But, similarly, does anything prevent the member from simply making the motion at a meeting? If the President rules it out of order because it is in the hands of a committee, the member would then appeal and point out that the assembly never sent it to the committee. Or maybe your rules allow for the automatic referral of certain items of business?

He is a member of both board and organization. It was just sent to the board to get feedback before presenting to the body. There is no requirement in our organization that the proposal be sent to the board first. Our rules do not give the President the authority  to send to committee nor do we have automatic referrals. 

Nothing is preventing the member from making a motion at a meeting. The concern is the committee's report has a recommendation about the proposal. Should the recommendation be in the committee report? Would the member make the motion in the beginning of the meeting or when there is call for new business? Would it be in order to vote on the committee's recommendation? 

29 minutes ago, Daniel H. Honemann said:

Resolve what?

Apparently a lot has already happened. You say that the president sent the proposals to a committee to discuss and present findings, and apparently this committee reported (you don't say to whom) that it had voted unanimously to reject the idea, but there was no supporting information in its report for this decision. You also say that there were questions raised about this lack of information, and that the president said she will get the committee to add information and the next step is the committee will present the recommendation to the general membership for a vote. When and where did this all happen? At a board meeting? If so, apparently the board just went along with it, without anyone raising any objection.

Resolve the fact that the proposal was never presented to the membership for discussion. That was the member's intent.  A lot has happened but does that mean nothing can be done especially if what has happened was not the member's intent?  The committee gave a report to the president who read the information at the executive board meeting. It has not been presented to the general membership yet. 

6 minutes ago, Daniel H. Honemann said:

Nothing in RONR requires that board members send proposals in advance of an executive board meeting for discussion, or gives a president the power to do any of the things you have described here. My guess is that your organization has adopted its own rules that control what is going on here.

 

 

Nothing in our bylaws gives this permission either.  Is there a way to resolve? 

Hello,

I'm seeking some guidance on how to resolve a matter if this was out of order. 

A member sent a proposal in advance of an executive board meeting for discussion. The president sent the proposals to a committee to discuss and present findings. The committee voted to unanimously to reject the idea. There was no supporting information in the report for the decision. There were questions raised about lack of information. The president said she will get committee to add and the next step is the committee will present the recommendation to the general membership to vote. Is this correct? 

The member's goal was for it to be discussed and voted on. 

How are proposals presented to the members for discussion and vote? 

Are recommendations presented to membership not to take action? 

If this is not correct, is there any way to "correct" this action before it comes before the general membership? 

I thought the member should have requested the item be added to the agenda for new business. And a motion to refer to committee if the vote passed? 

Your feedback is appreciated. Any page references would be great. 

Thank you everyone for your responses! 

42 minutes ago, Josh Martin said:

If your organization regularly uses a consent calendar, it should have rules relating to the consideration of motions on the consent calendar, how items are placed on the consent calendar, and other such matters. If the society has no such rules governing the use of the consent calendar, it should adopt some if it intends to continue using one.

Yes we do. My confusion wasn't the consent calendar itself. Mr Katz best answered my question. Thank you!

6 minutes ago, Rob Elsman said:

Nope.

I thought in the case of bylaw amendments. The chair can make recommendations by using a consent calendar. Is that because the presiding officer should present the consent calendar? Can you please explain your nope so I better understand? Thank you

30 minutes ago, Rob Elsman said:

It is unlikely that a standing committee needs to use a consent calendar at all.  I recommend discontinuing it.  A special committee has just one item of business, so the use of a consent calendar would be absurd.

Bylaws committee?

49 minutes ago, Joshua Katz said:

This should not happen. The presiding officer should ask if there are any objections.

Thank you so much for this! I definitely thought the committee chair asked for objections. 

I am looking for some guidance on a consent calendar and unanimous consent. If a committee chair is giving a report and wants to use the consent calendar. The committee chair  asks if there are any objections to items on consent calendar and no one says anything. Does the committee chair say the items are adopted or does that go back to the presiding officer to say? 

Thank you! This is helpful.

If there is not enough time in a meeting to cover the business listed on the agenda, what is the best course of action to "reschedule" for another day/time? 

1 hour ago, Richard Brown said:

I disagree and agree with Mr. Martin.  I think this committee is unquestionably a committee.  For what it's worth, I know of several organizations which have similar committees.

As to creating a special committee to perform this function, I agree with Mr. Martin that a special committee could indeed be created to perform the same function, but I caution that no such special committee should be created as long as there is a standing committee charged with that function.  The following provision on page 492 of the 11th edition speaks directly to that issue.  Note the highlighted sentence:

A special (select, or ad hoc) committee is a committee appointed, as the need arises, to carry out a specified task, at the completion of which—that is, on presentation of its final report to the assembly—it automatically ceases to exist. A special committee may not be appointed to perform a task that falls within the assigned function of an existing standing committee.  (Emphasis added)

 

Mr Brown,

I have a follow-up question about special committee. If another standing Committee sends out cards as part of their duties but none of the cards  standing committee 'A'  (which solely does cards) sends. Does this mean Standing committee 'A' can not become a special Committee because another standing Committee already sends cards? 

57 minutes ago, Richard Brown said:

I disagree and agree with Mr. Martin.  I think this committee is unquestionably a committee.  For what it's worth, I know of several organizations which have similar committees.

As to creating a special committee to perform this function, I agree with Mr. Martin that a special committee could indeed be created to perform the same function, but I caution that no such special committee should be created as long as there is a standing committee charged with that function.  The following provision on page 492 of the 11th edition speaks directly to that issue.  Note the highlighted sentence:

A special (select, or ad hoc) committee is a committee appointed, as the need arises, to carry out a specified task, at the completion of which—that is, on presentation of its final report to the assembly—it automatically ceases to exist. A special committee may not be appointed to perform a task that falls within the assigned function of an existing standing committee.  (Emphasis added)

 

Mr. Brown,

I have a follow-up question about special committee.  If we have another standing committee that sends out cards as a small part of their duties but not any of the cards listed in the standing committee 'A' that solely sends cards. (I hope that makes sense) Does that mean that standing committee 'A' can not be a special committee because another committee sends cards too?  

Thank you everyone for your responses. They are all very helpful. I do have some follow-up questions. Doesn't the standing committee also have to report out to the chapter monthly? I think that was another part of my confusion in thinking this should be a special committee. 

Our bylaws does not say the president can create committees.Just appoint.  So for clarification the president can only appoint committees that are listed in the bylaws? 

We have a big fundraising event every 2 years. We do not have a fundraising committee in our bylaws. The president appoints the committee. Is this correct or does a motion have to be made to create the fundraising committee every 2 years?

Hi,

I am looking for guidance on a few questions related to special committees and standing committees. 

First, our bylaws say the president can "appointment all committees otherwise not provided for."

There is a standing committee in our bylaws that sends out various cards for graduation, weddings, showers, etc. From what I've read in RONR, a special committee performs a specific task and essentially goes away after completion. I'm a little confused because this sounds like a special committee to me however other members believe this should remain as standing. Can someone advise on the type of committee this would be? 

My follow up questions if this is a special committee, would an amendment have to be submitted to remove it from the bylaws?

Lastly, would the president then have to appoint this as a special committee and where should duties of a special committee be? 

Can you please reference pages so I can refer back to?

Thank you for your help!