Angie N
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Posts posted by Angie N
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Hello,
From what I've read conforming amendments are considered conforming when they all needed in order to achieve one end. They all need to pass or fail together. They are not dividable. I am still not fully understanding conforming amendments. Can someone give me an example of conforming amendments?
Thank you!
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Hello,
I have a couple of questions regarding lack of quorum and meeting minutes. If there is no quorum at a meeting and only discussion, what should be included in the minutes? The discussions?
Also since there was no quorum do the minutes still have to be approved at the following meeting?
Can you please reference RONR?
Thank you!
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9 minutes ago, Greg Goodwiller said:
You can amend your bylaws to authorize electronic meetings.
Thank for your response. Yes I should have also added we are doing that. However with the covid-19 concerns we are trying to be proactive in the event we don' have quorum.
My question is specific to if we can suspend the rules.
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Hello,
I'm seeking guidance on suspending the rules because our bylaws does not say we can have electronic meetings. I understand RONR would prohibit since it's not on our bylaws.
Would we be able to meet face to face in March for the sole purpose of suspending the rules? We do not have any provisions for special meetings in our bylaws either. Our bylaws say we meet once a month. They do not say when although our tradition is to meet every 4th Sunday.
What can we do?
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50 minutes ago, Joshua Katz said:
Because it seems like there might be confusion, scope of notice does not refer to the 30 day timeline. It refers to the contents of the amendment. When notice has been given and was required, and it is desired to amend the motion when it is considered, the amendment needs to be within the scope of the notice. For instance, suppose there are no dues at the moment, and the motion is to amend the bylaws so that dues will be $50. It would be within the scope of notice to, at the meeting where the motion is considered, amend $50 to $40, since that does less than was proposed. It would be out of order to move to amend $50 to $60, since that goes beyond what notice was provided.
Thank you! This is a great example for understanding.
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44 minutes ago, Atul Kapur said:
He, or any other member, can move to amend the original amendment at the meeting, provided that it fits within the scope of notice of the original amendment.
The amendment to the original amendment would only require a majority vote to be adopted.
After the amendment to the amendment has been decided on, you then consider the amendment to the bylaws itself. The amendment to the bylaws would require a 2/3 vote.
Ok thank you! This is very helpful...it answers what the member is trying to accomplish.
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Ok no it would not be within the 30 day scope. Without the 30 day notice I thought that he would be able to move to amend his amendment and add to his original amendment at the meeting and the members then vote. And needed 2/3 for it to pass.
Thank you for your help!
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Thank you for the responses. I don't think I asked the question correctly so I would like to attempt again.
A member of the organization submitted a bylaw amendment. 30 days Notice was given however later he realized he wanted to add to the amendment he submitted. How would he make the changes before the members vote?
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On 3/4/2020 at 9:40 AM, Rob Elsman said:
Motions to Amend Something Previously Adopted are amendable.
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On 3/12/2020 at 8:47 PM, Rob Elsman said:
Without an express authorization in the bylaws, an electronic meeting is prohibited, since meetings must be held in "one room or area". See RONR (11th ed.), pp. 82, 97-99.
We are in a similar situation. Our bylaws do not authorize electronic meetings. If we are unable to meet electronically or suspend the rules? What options do we have to move forward? Do we cancel the meetings?
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Thank you for your response. I did not give a real example. The question I was looking to get an answer to was do we vote on the proposed bylaw amendments submitted or can any member amend any submission. It sounds like it can depend on the scenario
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Hello,
I am seeking guidance on a question related to Bylaw Amendments. Can an amendment be changed the day the members vote?
Example:
Member A: Submits an Amendment to change quorum to 2/3
Member B: Request to amend to 1/3.
Would that be okay to do or are the members supposed to vote on original submissions only?
Can you please reference any page numbers so I can read as well?
Thank you for your help!
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Thank you both! Much appreciated.
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Thank you! RONR is our parlimentary authority. Can you reference a page number please?
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Our bylaws do not specify if meetings can be held via conference call or video conference, etc. If a member requests a meeting via conference call, would that be Ok to do?
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Hello!
If Bylaws do not address special meeting, can any member call a special meeting with notice and purpose? What are the proper steps to take?
Thank you!
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Hello
I have a couple questions about the agenda. If there is a set date for a meetings, can any member reach out to the chair prior to the meeting to add items or do they have to make a motion in the actual meeting to get the items added? Also can the chair refuse agenda items or do they have to add all items?
I do understand that the chair does not set the agenda. I'm trying to better understand if there is an order to follow.
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14 minutes ago, Joshua Katz said:
Is the committee chair not a member of the body that was meeting?
In any event, I think we can say definitively that any point of order would have needed to be raised at the time.
Yes they are. The bottom line is the committee chair did not expect a vote from his recommendation because he did not say " I move". Thank you!
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1 hour ago, Bruce Lages said:
I think that depends on how many more than 12 members your board has. RONR stipulates that small board rules can be applied when "boards are usually to be understood as consisting of not more than about a dozen persons." (p. 9, l.35 - p. 10, l.1). If your board has a few more than 12, the small board rules may work fine, whereas if you have many more members they probably won't work well. The 12 members figure should not be seen as an absolute limit.
Sorry I did not mean the board. The membership is about 35-40 members. The chair votes by show of hands in the meetings.
Mr. Kapur helped address this.
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1 hour ago, Atul Kapur said:
"The committee recommended that [take the language from the report, which should be written] . The recommendation was adopted."
You can show him the passage quoted above and suggest that he should at least phrase the recommendation in the form of a motion. If he doesn't want to do that because he disagrees with the committee's recommendation, then another member of the committee should move it.
Yes, but the Chair is giving up their position of impartiality, which is not advisable. Again, your can show them the passage quoted above.
Thank you! This is helpful.
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54 minutes ago, Joshua Katz said:
I'm not clear what this means. A committee, as you say here, makes recommendations. If it wants those recommendations to actually guide actions, it needs to make them in the form of a motion. If the committee doesn't want to make such a motion, it's not clear to me that it is recommending anything, since by definition a recommendation is something you think should be done. I think the problem here may be a misunderstanding on the part of the committee chair as to how committee recommendations are advanced in a deliberative assembly.
I believe there was some misunderstanding on voting on a recommendation vs a motion. To try to provide some clarification, the committee chair was making a recommendation however I believe he also thought that a member of the body had to make a motion in order to vote. There was no motion made however the chair of the body put the recommendation to a vote. After the meeting, it was questioned if that was in order.
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26 minutes ago, Atul Kapur said:
It is recommended in order to avoid confusion.
"In any report of a subordinate board or a committee ... specific recommendations for immediate action by the parent assembly should be grouped at the end—repeating them if they have already been noted at separate places in the report—and should generally be cast in the form of one or more proposed resolutions. Although it is possible for a report, in the circumstances just described, to present recommendations which are not in the form of resolutions or motions, the “adoption” of such recommendations by the parent assembly may, depending on their wording or that of the motion to adopt, lead to confusion as to whether their adoption authorizes action, or only has the force of a declaration of intent (requiring the adoption of subsequent resolutions for implementation). A board or committee is usually best fitted to prepare resolutions to carry out its recommendations, and it should never leave this responsibility to others."
(RONR 11th ed., p. 504, lines 16-32. Emphasis added)The chair may have assumed that the recommendation was clear enough that everyone knew what they were voting on. If the secretary (or any other member) was not certain, then they should have insisted that the motion be stated clearly.
Depends on the size of the body that is meeting.
"If the presiding officer is a member of the assembly or voting body, he has the same voting right as any other member. Except in a small board or a committee, however— unless the vote is secret (that is, unless it is by ballot;) the chair protects his impartial position by exercising his voting right only when his vote would affect the outcome," (p. 53, lines 16-21)
"Small board" is defined as "In a board meeting where there are not more than about a dozen members present" (p. 487)
That is something to be decided between the chair and the parliamentarian. They are not listed in RONR among the duties of the parliamentarian.
Edited to add: The rules for small boards and committees (p. 487-8) cover a few of the things you described:
"some of the formality that is necessary in a large assembly would hinder business. The rules governing such meetings are different from the rules that hold in other assemblies
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"- When a proposal is perfectly clear to all present, a vote can be taken without a motion’s having been introduced.
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"If the chairman is a member, he may, without leaving the
chair, speak in informal discussions and in debate, and vote on all questions."Thank you Atul!
I have a few follow up questions. My confusion is the chair of the committee said he didn't make a motion just a recommendation so he did not want to complete the motion form. So is it still recorded in minutes that he made the motion? How do I record in the minutes?
Also this is not a small board, it is more than 12. So does the chair still has the right to vote in the meeting when it is not secret ballot or their vote is not affecting the outcome?
Thank you!
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Hi,
I am seeking some guidance on a few things.
A committee chair made a "recommendation" to the body. The chair of the meeting ended up asking for a vote and it passed. I thought it had to be presesented as a motion in order to vote. Does the recommendation count as the motion? How is this recorded in the minutes?
Also should the chair be given a voting card? I thought the chair was supposed to be impartial. However the chair says she has the same rights as members including voting while presiding.
Does the parlimentarian have to collect motion forms and count the votes?
Thank you!
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Whew! Thank you everyone! This is a lot to digest. Mr. Brown is indeed correct that the membership felt the need for the assessment and everyone was ok. The concern became after realizing the payment in full was made and continued assessments. It doesn't necessarily sound the right thing based on the feedback however the membership decided to let the assessment continue to the 2nd year and excess would get allocated to another expense.
This has been super helpful to me. Thank you again for your insight and expertise.
Conforming amendments
in General Discussion
Posted
Excellent! Thank you so much!