George Mervosh

On 6/26/2023 at 12:26 PM, Guest Laurie said:

Must there be secret/paper ballots or can there be a show of hands or roll call vote?

If the bylaws require a vote by ballot for the elections, that requirement may never be suspended (unless the rule itself provides for its own suspension), and ballots must be used.  Do your bylaws require a ballot vote?

On 6/26/2023 at 12:16 PM, Guest Tony said:

If a motion was made at a meeting 2 months ago to restrict members from going to an event can a new motion be made at another meeting to let those same members go to an event.  

If the motion made 2 months ago was adopted, any member may move to either rescind or amend it, yes.  See RONR (12th ed.), §35 for full details, including the vote required to adopt such a motion.

On 6/12/2023 at 11:16 AM, Wright Stuff said:

Related, after an unqualified motion to adjourn is made and seconded but before the vote is taken, is it in order to rise to a parliamentary inquiry to ask what happens to the pending business if the motion to adjourn passes?

Interesting question. 

21:10 notes that while a privileged motion to adjourn is pending, it is proper:  "to inform the assembly of business requiring attention before adjournment;", but it does not say a parliamentary inquiry may be made while such a motion is pending, although 33:1 leaves me wondering if it would be in order.

If it was an incidental main motion, as Mr. Honemann noted yours should have been, yes, that would be proper.

On 6/2/2023 at 1:19 PM, Guest Bill said:

Hello, We have a contentious situation between two board members. One of these board members said she would be having a mediator attend the meetings "to create a safe space for me". She is the secretary and of course takes our minutes. Is allowing someone outside our membership to attend board meetings allowed? Thank you.

It is up to the board itself to decide if this person may attend meetings.  

Guest Bill -  See FAQ#18 at https://robertsrules.com/frequently-asked-questions/#faqs to support Mr. Katz's first sentence in his reply.

Also, I am not clear what you mean by "Also, from what I read, normally once a board member has resigned it cannot be undone without the other board members approving".  Once a resignation has been properly accepted by the body authorized to do so, that action cannot be rescinded at all.  See RONR (12th ed.),  35:6 c)

On 5/2/2023 at 6:32 PM, Guest Peter Deg said:

I assume that if one cannot question the motives of another member, that includes attacking the motives of a committee or board?  43:21.  At a recent member meeting the a member said in debate that he "felt like the board of directors didn't act in good faith."  Does this language violate decorum even though it doesn't use any person's name?

In my opinion it does not violate the rules of decorum, but I suppose this might be a case where I can see disagreement on whether or not it is.

The last sentence in 57:5 and n2 may be of help in answering your question.

On 4/27/2023 at 8:45 AM, Pascal Jouvence said:

A vote was made to postpone a main motion to the next meeting. Can you reconsider that subsidiary motion? Thank you.

An affirmative vote to postpone may be reconsidered, but the motion needs to be made in the same session that it was adopted.

On 4/27/2023 at 9:42 AM, P. Wanger said:

I was asked to look over a 53-year old constitution for a teacher's organization that was recently discovered. Within the constitution it uses the former name for the state level teacher's association. I advised the organization that they needed to run the change through their amendment process. Was I correct in that statement, or can the constitution just be edited because the outside organization changed its name?

You are correct.  The Constitution can only be amended via the amendment process contained within it.  When there is a separate constitution, its rules supersede those in the bylaws, so it would be a good idea to tend to it rather quickly.

I must admit I would have got this one wrong, no matter the vote required to waive the actual reading.  This seems to be their form of previous notice, and skipping any element of it would not be permitted, in my opinion.  But alas, I have at least learned something today.   

On 4/13/2023 at 8:03 AM, Guest John said:

 A member of our organization will appeal a fine to the membership, levied by the board of controls, for breaking a standing rule of the organization.  The appeal will be at our next membership meeting. Our Constitution states : "The Respondent shall have the right to counsel at such meeting selected from the membership and may present such evidence as he shall see fit.  The Board may present evidence of its findings by witnesses, committee reports, or such other evidence as it shall elect.  A majority vote of those Active Members present and voting shall be sufficient to reverse the judgment of the Board." My question is what motion needs to be made at the membership meeting by the appealing member to initiate the appeal? 

Can you address this first, please?  "Members cannot be assessed any additional payment aside from their dues unless it is provided for in the bylaws. "  RONR (12th ed.), 56:19.

Do the bylaws expressly authorize assessing members a fine?

On 4/11/2023 at 11:47 AM, Guest Ken Hatcher said:

Thank you. I had thought there might be legal consequences during a year of delay in approving the minutes. I also thought perhaps there were problems in the implementation of action approved by the assembly but not reported as approved during the 12-month delay in approving the minutes. However it seems there is not much practical consequence to a 12-month delay. The assembly is to convene for its annual meeting in June and I was going to urge a motion to authorize the Board to consider and approve the minutes at the Board's next regular meeting after the assembly's annual meeting.

I think many of us here would agree that not having an official record of what transpired at a meeting for one year is unacceptable and could have undesired consequences. Adopting a motion by a majority vote to have the board approve the minutes or appointing a committee to approve them is a very simple yet important action, or it would not be recommended in RONR.  

On 4/5/2023 at 11:37 AM, Guest Brad Marinelli said:

Good morning, when the secretary is taking minutes is it necessary to record who makes a motion and seconds that motion by putting their name in the minutes or can you just record a motion was made and it was seconded?  Thank you for your consideration in your response.

" The name of the maker of a main motion should be entered in the minutes, but the name of the seconder should not be entered unless ordered by the assembly."  RONR (12th ed.), 48:5  1)

On 3/28/2023 at 10:51 AM, Guest Guest said:

What format has to be used for "official" Annual Meeting minutes?  Can the minutes be a bulleted format with each bullet point focusing on the main points? Or, do they have to be in paragraph format?

The annual meeting minutes should be in the same format as any other meeting and the rules and form in §48 in RONR (12th ed.) would apply to all meetings.  I have a hunch the minutes contain far more than they should.  This section is worth a careful read.

On 3/27/2023 at 8:55 AM, Rob Elsman said:

In my view, the updated call to the meeting is not proper, since it is unfair to those who have already made necessary arrangements to attend (e.g., changes in personal schedule or travel and lodging reservations).

So you disagree with Mr. Martin's reply?  If you are, I would be curious as to the rule you would cite to support any disagreement?  If you're just saying it may be unfair, I won't disagree with you.

On 3/22/2023 at 3:35 PM, Guest Ken Hatcher said:

If the annual meeting adjourns sine die, not to meet again for another 12 months, can the Board arrogate to itself, sua sponte, the authority to correct, if necessary, and to approve the secretary's draft? Or, do the minutes remain as a draft during the 12-month interim?

No.  The members at the annual meeting should have authorized the board to approve the minutes, or, appointed a committee to approve them, but the board cannot assume such powers.  See RONR (12th ed.), 48:12  In your case the minutes remain unapproved.  Next year the assembly needs to take some action so that they don't have to wait a year for an approved set of minutes.  

Of course I prefer Mr. Gerber's reply to mine, but the delete function isn't available any longer. 

On 3/17/2023 at 12:46 PM, Josh Martin said:

They are certainly orders of the day in some regard. Whether they are general orders or special orders depends on the specifics.

"By a single vote, a series of special orders or general orders—or a mixture of both—can be made; such a series is called an agenda. When an hour is assigned to a particular subject in an agenda, that subject is thereby made a special order unless, by footnote or other means, it is stated that the time is intended merely for guidance, in which case the subject is only a general order. Subjects for which no hour is specified in an agenda are general orders." RONR (12th ed.) 41:58

Thanks, Josh.  Yes, this subject came up before about listing new business items in an adopted agenda, and I thought that was the case.  

I keep getting this wrong, but if an agenda is adopted with items listed under new business, aren't those items really general orders?

On 3/16/2023 at 9:00 AM, Lryan said:

 What if there is an amendment ? Do all the absentee ballots get thrown out ?

No, which is why the citation above was provided.

On 3/16/2023 at 9:00 AM, Lryan said:

Do the absentee ballot count towards quorum ? 

Not under the rules in RONR.  The bylaws or some applicable rule in statute would have to provide for this.

On 3/16/2023 at 9:00 AM, Lryan said:

Do ballots get counted with live votes ? 

I don't see any other way, but someone else here might.

Perhaps it is good to start here in your situation:  

" It is a fundamental principle of parliamentary law that the right to vote is limited to the members of an organization who are actually present at the time the vote is taken in a regular or properly called meeting, although it should be noted that a member need not be present when the question is put. Exceptions to this rule must be expressly stated in the bylaws. Such possible exceptions include: (a) voting by postal mail, e-mail, or fax, and (b) proxy voting. An organization should never adopt a bylaw permitting a question to be decided by a voting procedure in which the votes of persons who attend a meeting are counted together with ballots mailed in by absentees. The votes of those present could be affected by debate, by amendments, and perhaps by the need for repeated balloting, while those absent would be unable to adjust their votes to reflect these factors. Consequently, the absentee ballots would in most cases be on a somewhat different question than that on which those present were voting, leading to confusion, unfairness, and inaccuracy in determining the result. If there is a possibility of any uncertainty about who will be entitled to vote, this should be spelled out unambiguously and strictly enforced to avoid unfairness in close votes."   RONR (12th ed.), 45:56  emphasis added by me.

On 3/14/2023 at 9:58 PM, Richard Brown said:

George, do you have a citation for the premise that with an incomplete election, no one is automatically on the next ballot?  I can't find anything in RONR which says that and sections 46:32 and 46:46 seem to say... or at least imply... otherwise.  For example, 46:46 says "another vote can be taken immediately or at the next meeting without notice".   This says to me that the assembly simply votes again and that all names except for the member who declined to serve remain on the ballot, although nominations of course may be re-opened by means of a motion to do so.

I don't, but this is not the case where RONR discusses dropping a name from a ballot in subsequent rounds of balloting when no one has achieved a majority vote as shown in 46:32.  Someone did win, he just declined.  I am certainly open to the fact my response may not be correct in this regard.

On 3/14/2023 at 12:56 PM, Guest Guest said:

If we have a specific nomination period and process for the elections, outside of emergency elections for candidates who leave mid-term, outlined in our bylaws would we still take new nominations? 

I don't know what your rules say or if they are even applicable to an incomplete election.  Nominations are not strictly necessary for a vote by ballot.  A ballot can be as simple as a blank piece of paper members write their vote on.

On 3/14/2023 at 12:16 PM, Guest Guest said:

We recently ran an election for vice chair with two candidates.  The one who won decline the position.  We don't have anything in our bylaws to address this.  Can we declare the remaining candidate who received the next highest vote the winner or would we need to rerun the election with only one name on the ballot?

You have an incomplete election.  At the next regular or properly called meeting, nominations should be taken from the floor and another vote conducted.  No one is automatically on the next ballot.  Remember to leave in a space for a write-in vote when voting by ballot.

On 3/8/2023 at 4:15 PM, Guest len said:

should personal comments be placed in the minutes of a meeting

No.

On 3/8/2023 at 1:19 PM, Guest *****@*****.tld said:

If a vote is divided should how each person voted be documented in the minutes? Or is 6 yeas 2 nays sufficient?

Thank you

Jane

The only time you record how each person voted is if the vote was taken by roll call.  The count would only be listed if the assembly ordered a count or if the presiding officer ordered the vote counted on his own initiative.  Otherwise, just simply note, in this case, the motion was adopted.