Recalled chair

[Guest Sarah Smith]

If the organization's bylaws define the chair ex-officio as the immediate past chair, but the immediate past chair was recalled by a vote of the membership, is that person still the ex-officio? Or would the chair prior be the ex-officio?

[hmtcastle]

If the organization's bylaws define the chair ex-officio as the immediate past chair, but the immediate past chair was recalled by a vote of the membership, is that person still the ex-officio? Or would the chair prior be the ex-officio?

I'm afraid your question isn't clear (to me) but here are two thoughts:

The term "ex-officio" does not refer to someone who used to hold an office. In other words, it's not like "ex-president". See FAQ #2.

If your (immediate) past chair is an ex-officio member of your board, it doesn't matter what else happens to that person (e.g. moves out of state, goes to jail, gets recalled), he's still the (immediate) past chair. The only way he stops being the (immediate) past chair is when the current chair leaves office.

[jstackpo]

How can you "recall" an Immediate Past Chair? That is a statement of fact, not an elective office. You can't change history.

In my personal view, setting up an "official" Immediate Past President (IPP) or Immediate past Anything, position is not a particularly good idea. The most telling argument is the real possibility of a close and bitter race for the presidency, with the current president running (for a second term) against an "outsider". And the outsider - the "reform candidate", perhaps - wins but is still stuck with the thorn of the IPP on the Board in a position to snipe at the new president. And perhaps attempt to undermine the new president's plans.

If the erstwhile president is a "good guy" the new president can (usually, depending on the bylaws) appoint him to a pre-existing committee - or even have him chair one, which might put him on the Board - as the new president sees fit. That way the IPP's experience and value can be put to good use, when needed, without the danger of setting up an adversarial situation which would require a bylaw amendment to get out of.

Here's some more reasons

1) The President resigns and wants nothing to do with the organization.

2) The President simply doesn't run for election again because he's had enough, and never shows up at a board meeting.

3) The President is booted out of office for being incompetent, or for something more nefarious.

4) The President dies.

5) The President resigns and moves (wants to help but isn't around).

6) Even worse is the bylaw assignment of the IPP to chair a committee - such as nominating. Then he dies/quits/leaves town, &c. You are then stuck with an unfillable (by definition) vacancy.

[Guest Sarah Smith]

I'm afraid your question isn't clear (to me) but here are two thoughts:

The term "ex-officio" does not refer to someone who used to hold an office. In other words, it's not like "ex-president". See FAQ #2.

If your (immediate) past chair is an ex-officio member of your board, it doesn't matter what else happens to that person (e.g. moves out of state, goes to jail, gets recalled), he's still the (immediate) past chair. The only way he stops being the (immediate) past chair is when the current chair leaves office.

[Guest Guest]

Thanks for your reply. For clarification, the bylaws state the ex-officio chair serves on the executive committee. The chair was recalled by a membership vote. A new chair was elected. Does the recalled chair still qualify as ex-officio? Or can the board say that because that person was recalled, he is not to serve in any capacity, even as a nonvoting ex-officio member of the board?

[Josh Martin]

For clarification, the bylaws state the ex-officio chair serves on the executive committee. The chair was recalled by a membership vote. A new chair was elected. Does the recalled chair still qualify as ex-officio? Or can the board say that because that person was recalled, he is not to serve in any capacity, even as a nonvoting ex-officio member of the board?

It is ultimately up to your organization to interpret your own Bylaws. See RONR, 10th ed., pgs. 570-573 for some Principles of Interpretation. The simple dictionary definition of the words suggests that the Immediate Past President is the person who most recently served as President, and how that person left office is irrelevant. Your Bylaws may suggest otherwise. I hope you are also starting to see why most members of this forum (myself included) advise against giving any ex-officio status to the Immediate Past President.

I would also double-check to see if your Bylaws actually say the position is "non-voting." If you are simply assuming that ex-officio members are non-voting, you are incorrect.

[Gary Novosielski]

Thanks for your reply. For clarification, the bylaws state the ex-officio chair serves on the executive committee. The chair was recalled by a membership vote. A new chair was elected. Does the recalled chair still qualify as ex-officio? Or can the board say that because that person was recalled, he is not to serve in any capacity, even as a nonvoting ex-officio member of the board?

No. And any ex-officio members of the board DO have voting rights, unless the bylaws expressly remove that right.

What the board can do is read and follow the bylaws. If the immediate past chair is listed in the bylaws as an officer without any eligibility requirements, or any limit on the term of office, then there aren't any limits, and the board may not say anything that would create them. Such bylaw provisions are not suspendable.

All the board can do is ask the general membership to change the bylaws.

[tctheatc]

Thanks for your reply. For clarification, the bylaws state the ex-officio chair serves on the executive committee. The chair was recalled by a membership vote. A new chair was elected. Does the recalled chair still qualify as ex-officio? Or can the board say that because that person was recalled, he is not to serve in any capacity, even as a nonvoting ex-officio member of the board?

Does he still hold the office? seeing as ex-officio refers to the person who holds the office the answer should be simple. In that position? hold the ex-officio seat. Not in that position? Don't hold the ex-officio seat.

I almost get the idea your organization is using some alternate meaning of the term ex-officio.

[hmtcastle]

I almost get the idea your organization is using some alternate meaning of the term ex-officio.

I think Judy may be using the term in two ways. One (incorrectly) to describe the former chair as the ex-officio chair (i.e. the ex-chair), and one (correctly) to indicate that the former chair is an ex-officio member of the executive committee.

Perhaps the 13th edition will be written entirely in English. I, for one, would not miss viva voce or sine die (along with the helpful pronunciation guides on pages 43 and 81).

[Gary Novosielski]

Perhaps the 13th edition will be written entirely in English. I, for one, would not miss viva voce or sine die (along with the helpful pronunciation guides on pages 43 and 81).

Yeah, it's pronounced PRESS-eh-dense, not pre-SEED-ense, I don't care what anybody says.