Minutes for items in agenda not discussed in meeting

[CarotZee]

If we are in a regular meeting and have 3 items in New Business in agenda and we adjourn after discussing the first (due to time). Do those items we haven't gotten to get put into the minutes at all? They weren't motions we were debating when we adjourned - they hadn't even come up yet... so do they even get mentioned in the minutes or just put onto the next agenda as "Unfinished Business? If they are put into the minutes - how is it worded... I was unable to find it in the RONR index as to how it would be worded in the minutes.

[Dan Honemann]

If we are in a regular meeting and have 3 items in New Business in agenda and we adjourn after discussing the first (due to time). Do those items we haven't gotten to get put into the minutes at all? They weren't motions we were debating when we adjourned - they hadn't even come up yet... so do they even get mentioned in the minutes or just put onto the next agenda as "Unfinished Business? If they are put into the minutes - how is it worded... I was unable to find it in the RONR index as to how it would be worded in the minutes.

The agenda that was adopted will be included in the minutes.

[David A Foulkes]

If we are in a regular meeting and have 3 items in New Business in agenda and we adjourn after discussing the first (due to time). Do those items we haven't gotten to get put into the minutes at all? They weren't motions we were debating when we adjourned - they hadn't even come up yet... so do they even get mentioned in the minutes or just put onto the next agenda as "Unfinished Business? If they are put into the minutes - how is it worded... I was unable to find it in the RONR index as to how it would be worded in the minutes.

Since you never even got to these items, they would not be mentioned in the minutes except peripherally as Mr. Honemann has noted in the mention of the agenda as adopted (you did adopt it, right?). The two items would carry over as General Orders (part of Unfinished Business) to the next meeting, assuming it be within a quarterly time interval.

[jstackpo]

Since you never even got to these items, .... The two items would carry over as General Orders (part of Unfinished Business) to the next meeting, ... .

I'm not so sure of that last assertion. The items didn't come up, and, hence, were not formally postponed, which is how (postponement) you make a "General Order".

The items could, of course, be introduced as New Business. And since New Business backs right up against "Unfinished Business" it would make little or no difference in how the meeting flowed. But the (important) distinction is that the Chair would NOT bring up those items not reached in the agenda as UB - a member would have to do so as NB.

[Tim Wynn]

If we are in a regular meeting and have 3 items in New Business in agenda...

"By a single vote a series of special orders or general orders -- or a mixture of both -- can be made; such a series is called an agenda." - RONR(10th ed.), p. 360, l. 10-12.

Special orders and general orders belong under the heading of Special Orders or Unfinished Business and General Orders. They should not be in New Business.

[Tim Wynn]

the Chair would NOT bring up those items not reached in the agenda as UB - a member would have to do so as NB.

However, these items on the agenda should not have been under New Business, since they are special or general orders, and as such, they would come up at the next meeting under Special Orders or Unfinished Business and General Orders.

[David A Foulkes]

However, these items on the agenda should not have been under New Business, since they are special or general orders, and as such, they would come up at the next meeting under Special Orders or Unfinished Business and General Orders.

I was thinking along those lines as relates to p. 354 ll. 18-23. As these items were on the Agenda, I would have expected them to already be General Orders, or at least I was expecting that even if the assembly did list them under New Business.

[jstackpo]

Good point: An ADOPTED agenda does create a General Order so even if those items are not reached -- under "Unfinished Business" even in the SAME meeting! -- they should be introduced by the Chair at the next meeting under Unfinished Business and General Orders. That implies, to me anyway, that adopting the agenda is tantamount to actually making the motion at the time of adoption of the agenda, so the "friend" of the motion does not need to offer it a second time.

Unreached items in an unadopted agenda do not get automatically introduced next meeting, but can be introduced as New Business.

RONR has a rather precise definition of "Agenda": it has to be an ADOPTED list of items. Otherwise the list is just a list and it makes no difference, next meeting, whether the items on the list were considered or not.

So back to CarotZee: Was your list of items actually adopted, making it an agenda?

[Tim Wynn]

That implies, to me anyway, that adopting the agenda is tantamount to actually making the motion at the time of adoption of the agenda, so the "friend" of the motion does not need to offer it a second time.

By creating a special/general order, the assembly has decided that the order will come before the assembly. So, no further motion is required.

[Dan Honemann]

By creating a special/general order, the assembly has decided that the order will come before the assembly. So, no further motion is required.

Items of business on an adopted agenda come up automatically at the designated time. However, even if an item of business is couched in the form of a motion, a member will have to move the adoption of that motion when the time comes (unless the motion has previously been properly made and stated by the chair).

[jstackpo]

Oh...Kay...

I trust that RONR/11 (I'm on pins and needles!) will clear up the apparent distinction between...

1) A General Order (GO) that is created by formally postponing a pending motion - these GOs do not need to be re-moved when the time for their consideration comes around...

and

2) The variant of a General Order, or series of general orders, that is created by the adoption of a list of things to do (thus making the list an "agenda") - these GOs (per Dan above) DO have to be formally moved, seconded, stated, &c. then their time for consideration comes around.

[Tim Wynn]

Items of business on an adopted agenda come up automatically at the designated time. However, even if an item of business is couched in the form of a motion, a member will have to move the adoption of that motion when the time comes (unless the motion has previously been properly made and stated by the chair).

Page 348, l. 1-2 leads me to believe that the chair should state the question, without a motion.

[Dan Honemann]

Oh...Kay...

I trust that RONR/11 (I'm on pins and needles!) will clear up the apparent distinction between...

1) A General Order (GO) that is created by formally postponing a pending motion - these GOs do not need to be re-moved when the time for their consideration comes around...

and

2) The variant of a General Order, or series of general orders, that is created by the adoption of a list of things to do (thus making the list an "agenda") - these GOs (per Dan above) DO have to be formally moved, seconded, stated, &c. then their time for consideration comes around.

Well, my view of this is based, in large measure, on what is said in the 10th Edition on page 362, lines 8-28 (particularly ll. 22-28).

[jstackpo]

Right...

Seems to me that the use of the phrase "general order" in these two contexts is the confusion engendering difficulty.

As is witnessed by the discussions in this thread...

[Dan Honemann]

Page 348, l. 1-2 leads me to believe that the chair should state the question, without a motion.

I think that what precedes the passage you cite, as well as the examples that follow it, indicate an assumption that the motion that is due to come up under the heading of "Unfinished Business and General Orders" in the standard order of business has previously been introduced.

[Tim Wynn]

Well, my view of this is based, in large measure, on what is said in the 10th Edition on page 362, lines 8-28 (particularly ll. 22-28).

Would this view apply to matters that arise as listed on p. 578, l. 8-10, and p.346, l. 17-21?

[CarotZee]

My question was not about what becomes of the items at the next meeting - but rather in the meeting that they were on the (adopted) agenda, are those items in the text of the minutes anywhere except in the text of the written agenda that was adopted?

And if they are in the text of the minutes - how are they written?

Assuming that no one made a motion to deal with those topics, and no motion was pending when we adjourned.

[tctheatc]

CarotZee, i think the answer to that was they will be included via the agenda, and no other notation in the minutes. (post #2)

[Dan Honemann]

Would this view apply to matters that arise as listed on p. 578, l. 8-10, and p.346, l. 17-21?

Giving notice of intent to offer an amendment to the bylaws does not eliminate the necessity of moving its adoption when the time arrives.

An election automatically become pending when the scheduled time arrives - no motion is involved.

[Tim Wynn]

I think that what precedes the passage you cite, as well as the examples that follow it, indicate an assumption that the motion that is due to come up under the heading of "Unfinished Business and General Orders" in the standard order of business has previously been introduced.

It's wonderful to have such a solid rule to point to.

[Shmuel Gerber]

My question was not about what becomes of the items at the next meeting - but rather in the meeting that they were on the (adopted) agenda, are those items in the text of the minutes anywhere except in the text of the written agenda that was adopted?

And if they are in the text of the minutes - how are they written?

Assuming that no one made a motion to deal with those topics, and no motion was pending when we adjourned.

Nothing should be added to the minutes that didn't take place at the meeting. So, if the agenda was adopted, it should be entered in the minutes -- but not with any additional commentary.

However, you are are correct that if there are items that were on the adopted agenda that were not reached, they should appear on the memorandum prepared by the secretary that lists the complete order of business for the next meeting (see RONR 10th ed., p. 342, l. 28 to p. 343, l. 4).