Motions and Bylaws

[tamali]

I have written to you in the past about my organization having members who constantly bring up the motions to have credit cards. I want to make sure I am following RR 10th edition correctly. My questions to you are:

1. As President, I have a written agenda (not just a list) which I follow each month. Items on an adopted agend are orders of the day as I understand it. At a meeting if a member makes a motion again for credit cards may I say Previous Notice of Motions must be made? Some motions page 116 are so important that the membership has sthe right to know beforehand that they are going to be presented at a meeting so they will be able to attend. If adopted this will change our business drastically. I will publish this in our newsletter when the motion is made and tell everyone it will be voted on at the next meeting.

2. At the next meeting when the motion is made regarding this subject how long must I allow for discussions? They can get pretty "hot" and I can't find anywhere of the 10 minutes as being required amount of time.

3. After discussion has gone on for the required amount of time may another member make the motion "Postpone Indefinitely"? I realize it must only pertain to the original motion. Page 121. If this Postpone Indefinitely is seconded is there discussion on it or can a vote be taken right away? This kills the first motion as I understand for the duration of the meeting if passed.

4. Our Bylaws are to be reviewed next month. Would it be permissible to have a Bylaw stating no credits cards allowed? Should this be put into our seperate Standing Rules instead?

I appreciate all the insight I receive from this forum. This forum has helped me become a more conscientious President. I hope these questions might help others too. Thank you so much for your time

[jstackpo]

1. A requirement that all motions had to have some sort of advance notice would be a "Special Rule of Order" requiring a notice itself and a 2/3 vote to adopt. And even then, it could be suspended (2/3 vote to do so) at any later meeting to allow the introduction of a motion that had no advance notice.

2. A motion can be made to limit debate to a specific length of time -- 2/3 to adopt.

3. PostIndef is fully debatable itself.

4. I'm not clear what you mean by no credit cards, but most any (legal) rule can be put in bylaws, following the bylaw amendment process that should be spelled out in those bylaws.

[Tim Wynn]

I have written to you in the past about my organization having members who constantly bring up the motions to have credit cards. I want to make sure I am following RR 10th edition correctly. My questions to you are:

1. As President, I have a written agenda (not just a list) which I follow each month. Items on an adopted agend are orders of the day as I understand it. At a meeting if a member makes a motion again for credit cards may I say Previous Notice of Motions must be made? Some motions page 116 are so important that the membership has sthe right to know beforehand that they are going to be presented at a meeting so they will be able to attend. If adopted this will change our business drastically. I will publish this in our newsletter when the motion is made and tell everyone it will be voted on at the next meeting.

2. At the next meeting when the motion is made regarding this subject how long must I allow for discussions? They can get pretty "hot" and I can't find anywhere of the 10 minutes as being required amount of time.

3. After discussion has gone on for the required amount of time may another member make the motion "Postpone Indefinitely"? I realize it must only pertain to the original motion. Page 121. If this Postpone Indefinitely is seconded is there discussion on it or can a vote be taken right away? This kills the first motion as I understand for the duration of the meeting if passed.

4. Our Bylaws are to be reviewed next month. Would it be permissible to have a Bylaw stating no credits cards allowed? Should this be put into our seperate Standing Rules instead?

I appreciate all the insight I receive from this forum. This forum has helped me become a more conscientious President. I hope these questions might help others too. Thank you so much for your time

1. No. The type of motion you're describing does NOT require previous notice.

2. Each members is allowed two intervals of debate of 10 minutes each. See RONR (10th ed.), p. 375, l. 22-27 & p. 376, l. 21-24.

3. Any member who has obtained the floor (no matter how much debate has taken place) can move to Postpone Indefinitely, when the main motion is immediately pending. Postpone Indefinitely is debatable and debate can go into the merits of the main motion. So, you could be doubling your debate time on the motion. There's really no reason, in this case, to avoid a direct vote on the question, so I don't see any benefit in using Postpone Indefinitely.

4. Yes, the bylaws can contain anything the organization decides. A standing rule is adopted and amended/rescinded under the same conditions as any ordinary act of the society. Bylaws are meant to be more difficult to alter. It's up to your organization to decide the level of the rule.

I have to admit that I don't understand such an aversion to credit cards, and apparently some of the members don't understand it either. I have a few credit cards myself.

[hmtcastle]

If adopted this will change our business drastically.

The safest place to put a prohibition on the use of credit cards is in your bylaws. But even that doesn't guarantee they won't be permitted some time in the future.

Remember that America's experiment with Prohibition lasted "only" thirteen years. Nothing is carved in stone.

[Josh Martin]

At a meeting if a member makes a motion again for credit cards may I say Previous Notice of Motions must be made?

There is no reason this motion requires previous notice, unless there is something you aren't telling us. Why do you believe this motion requires previous notice?

2. At the next meeting when the motion is made regarding this subject how long must I allow for discussions?

There is no overall limit on discussion. Each individual member may speak twice for up to ten minutes, and the motion maker gets to speak first. If the assembly wishes to cut discussion short, they can use the motion to Limit Debate to change the limits or the Previous Question to bring the motion to an immediate vote. Either motion requires a 2/3 vote and is not debatable. Of course, they won't be able to interrupt the motion maker.

3. After discussion has gone on for the required amount of time may another member make the motion "Postpone Indefinitely"?

As soon as someone gains recognition when the motion maker is done, a member may make the motion to Postpone Indefinitely.

If this Postpone Indefinitely is seconded is there discussion on it or can a vote be taken right away.

The motion to Postpone Indefinitely is debatable and debate may enter into the merits of the main question. For this reason, it might be better to just move the Previous Question and vote the main motion down.

Would it be permissible to have a Bylaw stating no credits cards allowed? Should this be put into our seperate Standing Rules instead?

Either way would be acceptable. The rule would be much more difficult to change if you put it in your Bylaws, and it would also mean that previous notice would be required to change it. If you put it in the Standing Rules, previous notice would lower the voting threshold for changing it, but they could still make a motion to change it without previous notice and aim for the higher voting threshold.

1. A requirement that all motions had to have some sort of advance notice would be a "Special Rule of Order" requiring a notice itself and a 2/3 vote to adopt. And even then, it could be suspended (2/3 vote to do so) at any later meeting to allow the introduction of a motion that had no advance notice.

I disagree. A rule requiring previous notice is not suspendable as it protects the rights of absentees.

I have to admit that I don't understand such an aversion to credit cards, and apparently some of the members don't understand it either. I have a few credit cards myself.

As I understand it from the previous thread, the proposal is to allow people to use credit cards for the organization's sales, and the organization would then need to pay fees to the credit card companies.

[tamali]

the reason I thought of Previous Notice is because it is simply a notice of intent and there is an actual, formally adopted agenda I have to follow. This would protect the members who could not attend. The motion would be put on the next month's agenda so everyone would have a chance to vote. We are a small Non Profit. Credit cards would raise our commission on sales and cost to run would eat the profits. Checked with banking institutions and they all said it would not be worth it. thanks so much

[hmtcastle]

there is an actual, formally adopted agenda I have to follow.

See FAQ #14.

Credit cards would raise our commission on sales and cost to run would eat the profits. Checked with banking institutions and they all said it would not be worth it.

OFF-TOPIC ALERT

FWIW, most businesses find that the small bite taken out by credit card processing fees is worth the added convenience (and ability to pay) of their customers.

[Gerry4000]

the reason I thought of Previous Notice is because it is simply a notice of intent and there is an actual, formally adopted agenda I have to follow. This would protect the members who could not attend. The motion would be put on the next month's agenda so everyone would have a chance to vote. We are a small Non Profit. Credit cards would raise our commission on sales and cost to run would eat the profits. Checked with banking institutions and they all said it would not be worth it. thanks so much

Just inventing rules to suit your desires/needs is not a valid way to run a meeting. If members want to be "protected", they should attand the meeting. They are already protected by higher requirements and/or advance notice to amend the bylaws (probably) and to amend/rescing something previoulsly adopted.

[Tim Wynn]

the reason I thought of Previous Notice is because it is simply a notice of intent and there is an actual, formally adopted agenda I have to follow.

The adoption of an agenda doesn't prevent the introduction of motions at a meeting.

This would protect the members who could not attend.

See RONR(10th ed.), p. 2, l. 11-17.

Credit cards would raise our commission on sales and cost to run would eat the profits. Checked with banking institutions and they all said it would not be worth it. thanks so much

This is the type of opinion that belongs in debate on the merits of a pending question; it has no place in a parliamentary ruling. In other words, no matter how bad you think the idea is, you can't block it from coming before the assembly, simply because of that opinion. Your job, as president, is to place it before the assembly, when it is made and seconded. The assembly will decide.

[Gary Novosielski]

As President, I have a written agenda (not just a list) which I follow each month. Items on an adopted agend are orders of the day as I understand it. At a meeting if a member makes a motion again for credit cards may I say Previous Notice of Motions must be made?

That sounds a little suspect. If you have this written agenda "as president", and you follow it, that does not exactly sound like anyone adopted it (apart from you).

An adopted agenda means that it has been agreed to by (a majority of) the assembly itself. And in the process of adopting it, it is debatable, so anyone may move to add items to it, delete items from it, and so on. So having an agenda will not protect you from motions you don't like. When the agenda is up for adoption and discussion, the proponents of credit cards can simply move to include that motion as an order of the day. There's no reason such a motion would require previous notice.

And if you do not have your agenda adopted by the members, then it is just a list.

[tctheatc]

1. As President, I have a written agenda (not just a list) which I follow each month. Items on an adopted agend are orders of the day as I understand it. At a meeting if a member makes a motion again for credit cards may I say Previous Notice of Motions must be made? Some motions page 116 are so important that the membership has sthe right to know beforehand that they are going to be presented at a meeting so they will be able to attend. If adopted this will change our business drastically. I will publish this in our newsletter when the motion is made and tell everyone it will be voted on at the next meeting.

I think you might be misreading this page. Nowhere do I see the notion that previous notice hinges on how important the motion is. After all, what is important to one may be meaningless to another. All motions are important, i think. What on page 116 gives you the impression it revolves around importance? Maybe that's key to understanding where you're going off track.