Guest Jennifer Hamer Posted April 10, 2011 at 01:57 PM Report Share Posted April 10, 2011 at 01:57 PM Our treasurer and financial secretary have recently given a report at an emergency financial meeting. The report was without hard copy as the treasurer keeps all of the information on her personal computer and does not have any back-up on a flash drive (or any other back-up for that matter). The report had several errors which were pointed out after the report was given, although without acknowledgement by the chair. Also, in violation of our by-laws, an audit has not been perfomed in about 2 years for the congregation/assembly to accept. We are a 501-3c organization and money is tight.The report did not contain any recommendations, just a scathing editorial (perjorative in nature).How do we handle this kind of antagonistic treasury report and incompetence?1. If a report is given without hard-copy, what can be done, especially in light of errors?2. At the next regular meeting, when the report is given, can it be challenged at that time or must it wait until new business?3. If it is challenged, is it possible to submit a correct report for the congregation to view (i.e. make a motion to allow . . .) I am actually thinking of paying for a professional audit, just so our church might be protected and if I do so, could I make a motion for the congregation to view and accept this report instead of the treasurer's?*people are afraid to speak up because they do not want to hurt her feelings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jennifer Hamer Posted April 10, 2011 at 02:02 PM Report Share Posted April 10, 2011 at 02:02 PM I should add for accuracy that we had a professional who was willing to review all of our finances (pro-bono) and prepare a report with cost-effective recommendations, however, after requesting financial information, the treasurer's computer crashed within a half hour of the request and the information was unavailable. This took place 2 days before the emergency financial meeting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmtcastle Posted April 10, 2011 at 03:12 PM Report Share Posted April 10, 2011 at 03:12 PM after requesting financial information, the treasurer's computer crashed within a half hour of the requestOf course it did. And it will probably rise from the dead once the controversy passes.See FAQ #20 if it's time for a new treasurer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jennifer Hamer Posted April 10, 2011 at 05:28 PM Report Share Posted April 10, 2011 at 05:28 PM Of course it did. And it will probably rise from the dead once the controversy passes.See FAQ #20 if it's time for a new treasurer.Your answer is helpful and also made me laugh. I agree completely.Do you have any answers to the questions (#1-3)in the original post? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jenhamer262 Posted April 11, 2011 at 09:10 PM Report Share Posted April 11, 2011 at 09:10 PM Would anyone happen to have an answer to questions #1-3 in the original post? This is most crucial as there is a council/trustees meeting tonight. Many Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Harrison Posted April 11, 2011 at 10:25 PM Report Share Posted April 11, 2011 at 10:25 PM Would anyone happen to have an answer to questions #1-3 in the original post? This is most crucial as there is a council/trustees meeting tonight. 1. If a report is given without hard-copy, what can be done, especially in light of errors?Order her to produce one and see FAQ #20 if she refuses.2. At the next regular meeting, when the report is given, can it be challenged at that time or must it wait until new business?It should be challenged at the time it is presented.3. If it is challenged, is it possible to submit a correct report for the congregation to view (i.e. make a motion to allow . . .) I am actually thinking of paying for a professional audit, just so our church might be protected and if I do so, could I make a motion for the congregation to view and accept this report instead of the treasurer's?You could make a motion that some outside entity be hired to review the books and present their own report and if so you should also adopt a motion ordering the Treasurer to provide any and all documents to this entity and to cooperate with them fully. However, I don't believe it would be proper to adopt their report as the Treasurer's Report because it is not a report from the Treasurer. After you all have cleared up this mess you all should think about removing her from office for dereliction of duty or at the least elect someone else next time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Martin Posted April 14, 2011 at 12:42 AM Report Share Posted April 14, 2011 at 12:42 AM However, I don't believe it would be proper to adopt their report as the Treasurer's Report because it is not a report from the Treasurer.Well, it's not proper to adopt the Treasurer's Report, either. Only the auditors' report should be adopted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kim Goldsworthy Posted April 14, 2011 at 01:08 AM Report Share Posted April 14, 2011 at 01:08 AM 1. If a report is given without hard-copy, what can be done, especially in light of errors?"Without a hard copy"?Nothing, which I can think of.A report in the nature of a status report will contain no adoptable motions.So, all you can do with an oral report containing no recommendations is (a.) hear it, and (b.) forget about it.(Without a hard copy, there is nothing to file, and nothing to "correct". -- You cannot amend an oral report.)2. At the next regular meeting, when the report is given, can it be challenged at that time or must it wait until new business?Unclear.What kind of "challenge" do you have in mind, for an oral report?Make it louder?3. If it is challenged, is it possible to submit a correct report for the congregation to view (i.e. make a motion to allow . . .) I am actually thinking of paying for a professional audit, just so our church might be protected and if I do so, could I make a motion for the congregation to view and accept this report instead of the treasurer's?Unclear.Since I have no idea what kind of data is being challenged, I cannot recommend a course of action.(E.g., an incorrectly-spelled name is corrected by simple unanimous consent. An incorrect bank balance is unlikely to be as correctable as quickly, and as easily.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jenhamer262 Posted May 9, 2011 at 07:55 PM Report Share Posted May 9, 2011 at 07:55 PM "Without a hard copy"?Nothing, which I can think of.A report in the nature of a status report will contain no adoptable motions.So, all you can do with an oral report containing no recommendations is (a.) hear it, and (b.) forget about it.(Without a hard copy, there is nothing to file, and nothing to "correct". -- You cannot amend an oral report.)Unclear.What kind of "challenge" do you have in mind, for an oral report?Make it louder?Unclear.Since I have no idea what kind of data is being challenged, I cannot recommend a course of action.(E.g., an incorrectly-spelled name is corrected by simple unanimous consent. An incorrect bank balance is unlikely to be as correctable as quickly, and as easily.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jenhamer262 Posted May 9, 2011 at 08:06 PM Report Share Posted May 9, 2011 at 08:06 PM Apologies for lack of clarity. . . The errors reported pertained to incorrectly stating what is included in an employee's compensation package. This included monetary and categorical errors.Update: We still have not received a financial report via committee or board. We have a regularly scheduled assembly meeting in two weeks. The dilemma is that no one wants to upset this woman, although her negligence and inaccuracies are having a very negative impact on our church finances and its employees. Therefore, no one will pursue her removal.However, as you explained clearly, since it was an oral report lacking hard-copy, there is nothing to amend. IF this report happened to have been included in the minutes, then I will make a motion to correct the minutes to reflect that the verbal report was an update and cannot be considered a valid financial report. Does this correction sound accurate (in other words, is this what I should say if her report was included in the minutes?).Many Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kim Goldsworthy Posted May 9, 2011 at 11:21 PM Report Share Posted May 9, 2011 at 11:21 PM ...since it was an oral report lacking hard-copy, there is nothing to amend.If this report happened to have been included in the minutes, then I will make a motion to correct the minutes to reflect that the verbal report was an update and cannot be considered a valid financial report.Does this correction sound accurate (in other words, is this what I should say if her report was included in the minutes?).Since it was an oral report lacking hard-copy Eww! Since the minutes contain data which was never orally presented, but the report was otherwise legitimate (!?), then, yes, I think amending the minutes is the closest thing you're going to get.It doesn't sit right in my gut.But I don't have a Plan B, for an oral report where the secretary fudged the figures. -- Accidentally or deliberately.***Crystal ball is bone dry.It won't even talk to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jenhamer262 Posted May 9, 2011 at 11:47 PM Report Share Posted May 9, 2011 at 11:47 PM Re: Kim G.While I sympathisize with a silence of your crystal ball, I still enjoyed a much-needed laugh.I know what the minutes are supposed to contain according to RONR, however, as I educate myself regarding proper procedure, I am amazed at how many things we are doing wrong. No doubt our secretary (who is nice, but naive) will have recorded information from the oral report, even lacking hard-copy. The treasurer is the individual I would truly like to hold accountable and will most likely do so alone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Novosielski Posted May 10, 2011 at 06:12 PM Report Share Posted May 10, 2011 at 06:12 PM We still have not received a financial report via committee or board. We have a regularly scheduled assembly meeting in two weeks. The dilemma is that no one wants to upset this woman, although her negligence and inaccuracies are having a very negative impact on our church finances and its employees. Therefore, no one will pursue her removal.Then everyone is complicit and nobody has the right to complain about her. If you tolerate incompetence, you will gain a lot of practice in tolerating incompetence, so that may be the only upside. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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