Delegates

[Watson]

RONR is the parliamentary authority. Our state association may elect X number of national delegates to send to the national advisory council based on state membership. The term of office is two years and nominations are held for a period of 21 days in the month of July of odd numbered years. The number of delegates for each state is based on total membership at the end of the prior year. Given modern electronic data control, our state association secretary can provide the exact state association membership on any given day. From 2008 to 2009 membership declined by 132. Based on the 2009 membership at the actual time of election of delegates, the allowable number was four. But based on membership at the end of 2008, five delegates were elected. Neither the national nor state bylaws make mention of which membership to count at the time of election. Is it possible to refer to RONR to determine the correct number of delegates?

[alanh49]

RONR is the parliamentary authority. Our state association may elect X number of national delegates to send to the national advisory council based on state membership. The term of office is two years and nominations are held for a period of 21 days in the month of July of odd numbered years. The number of delegates for each state is based on total membership at the end of the prior year. Given modern electronic data control, our state association secretary can provide the exact state association membership on any given day. From 2008 to 2009 membership declined by 132. Based on the 2009 membership at the actual time of election of delegates, the allowable number was four. But based on membership at the end of 2008, five delegates were elected. Neither the national nor state bylaws make mention of which membership to count at the time of election. Is it possible to refer to RONR to determine the correct number of delegates?

The number of delegates for each state is based on total membership at the end of the prior year.

Well if that is what your rules say that is what you go by and not the current membership

[Kim Goldsworthy]

RONR is the parliamentary authority.

Our state association may elect X number of national delegates to send to the national advisory council based on state membership.

The term of office is two years and nominations are held for a period of 21 days in the month of July of odd numbered years.

The number of delegates for each state is based on total membership at the end of the prior year.

This is your key rule.

What your membership is, before or after this date, is irrelevant for purposes of electing delegates.

Given modern electronic data control, our state association secretary can provide the exact state association membership on any given day.

From 2008 to 2009 membership declined by 132.

Based on the 2009 membership at the actual time of election of delegates, the allowable number was four.

But based on membership at the end of 2008, five delegates were elected.

Neither the national nor state bylaws make mention of which membership to count at the time of election.

You contradict yourself.

S1. "Neither the national nor state bylaws make mention of which membership to count at the time of election."

S2. "The number of delegates for each state is based on total membership at the end of the prior year."

If "the number of delegates for each state is based on total membership at the end of the prior year," (see S2) then you DO have a rule which "mentions which membership to count at the time of election." (S1)

If "nominations are held in ... July," then you use the number established at the end of the "prior year", that is, December 31st, that is, 8 months prior to your nomination month.

That seems clear enough.

Where is the ambiguity?

Is it possible to refer to RONR to determine the correct number of delegates?

No.

The "correct" number is your rule's number. -- The "end of the prior year" number. (S2)

If the current year is 2011, then the prior year is 2010.

If you held nominations in July of 2010, then the number to use is the one as of December 31st, 2009.

What's so hard about that?

Doesn't anyone know what the phrase "end of the prior year" means?

[Watson]

This is your key rule.

What your membership is, before or after this date, is irrelevant for purposes of electing delegates.

You contradict yourself.

S1. "Neither the national nor state bylaws make mention of which membership to count at the time of election."

S2. "The number of delegates for each state is based on total membership at the end of the prior year."

If "the number of delegates for each state is based on total membership at the end of the prior year," (see S2) then you DO have a rule which "mentions which membership to count at the time of election." (S1)

If "nominations are held in ... July," then you use the number established at the end of the "prior year", that is, December 31st, that is, 8 months prior to your nomination month.

That seems clear enough.

Where is the ambiguity?

No.

The "correct" number is your rule's number. -- The "end of the prior year" number. (S2)

If the current year is 2011, then the prior year is 2010.

If you held nominations in July of 2010, then the number to use is the one as of December 31st, 2009.

What's so hard about that?

Doesn't anyone know what the phrase "end of the prior year" means?

[Watson]

Sorry for not making it clear that the sentence, "The number of delegates for each state is based on total membership at the end of the prior year." does not appear anywhere in either state or national bylaws or in the national Official Rules and Regulations. My only known source is an email from the director of the national association stating that, "When we run elections we look at the total members at the end of the year from the year prior [sic]. So in July of 2009 we looked at 766 total members for Wisconsin in 2008 and allocated 5 National Delegates to Wisconsin [sic]."

[David A Foulkes]

Sorry for not making it clear that the sentence, "The number of delegates for each state is based on total membership at the end of the prior year." does not appear anywhere in either state or national bylaws or in the national Official Rules and Regulations. My only known source is an email from the director of the national association stating that, "When we run elections we look at the total members at the end of the year from the year prior [sic]. So in July of 2009 we looked at 766 total members for Wisconsin in 2008 and allocated 5 National Delegates to Wisconsin [sic]."

I was going to write "Oh, well, if it's in an email from the director, then it must be so!!" and accompany that with a winky face emoticon like this , but decided against doing that. Oh..... wait.....

Anyway..... so how then do you determine how many delegates you can send?

[Watson]

Answer to David's question: The national bylaws do specify one director for a state membership of 25 - 150; two directors ... 151 - 300; ... etc; and five directors ... over 750.

According to the year prior counting method, Wisconsin was entitled to elect five directors; but based on membership at the time opf election, Wisconsin would only have been entitled to elect four directors.

[Kim Goldsworthy]

... The national bylaws

do specify one director for a state membership of 25 - 150; two directors ... 151 - 300; ... etc; and five directors ... over 750.

According to the year prior counting method, Wisconsin was entitled to elect five directors;

but based on membership at the time of election, Wisconsin would only have been entitled to elect four directors.

If the rule which applies is a NATIONAL bylaw, then the body responsible for adopting and amendment NATIONAL bylaws is the body who gets to interpret the rule.

That is, a local affiliate cannot interpret a NATIONAL bylaw with any authority.

The local affiliate is dependent on the NATIONAL organization to tell the local affiliate the meaning of a NATIONAL bylaw.

Which is another way of saying, "There is no answer within Robert's Rules of Order."

[Josh Martin]

Is it possible to refer to RONR to determine the correct number of delegates?

No. I suggest you contact the national organization and ask them about this issue.