Breaking of a tie vote by the chairperson.

[Guest Pastor Walt]

The mayor of our city council has recently broken a tie vote on a six-member board of aldermen/woman. The tie was three yes votes and three abstentions [see FAQ # 6]. The motion was for a yes vote to remove one of the aldermen as "mayor pro-temp" of the board of aldermen/woman. One of those voting to abstain was the alderman who is the current mayor pro-temp that they were trying to remove.

1. According to Robert's Rules, can the "chair/president/mayor" cast the deciding vote for this motion? 2. Is it permissible for the three abstentions from voting on this motion to be considered a tie with the three "yes" votes on the motion? 3. Is it "legal" for the councilperson who is also the subject of the motion to participate in the voting? Should he be excused or ruled ineligible to vote on this motion?

[David A Foulkes]

Hoo boy! It's a mess, eh? And when I see "city council" I generally stay away. But here's some general knowledge that might be helpful.

Abstentions are not votes, so there was no tie vote. The vote was 3-0 (3 yes, 0 no) and those three that abstained did not vote. And if you should read FAQ #6, you'll see this.

There's really no such thing as a "motion for a yes vote." The motion was to remove one of the alderman as "mayor pro tem." Those voting could vote yes or no, or abstain. There's no such thing as "voting to abstain." Either you vote or you abstain (which is to elect to refrain from voting).

Answers

1. There was no "deciding vote" to cast, and generally the chair presents a position of impartiality and only votes when by ballot or when his vote affects the result. In small board meetings, that restriction is loosened.

2. No. Although, in limited situations, those abstentions would have the effect of no votes, but would still not be votes at all, so there would still be no "tie." However, the chair might still be able to vote if this were the case.

3. I don't do legal. It is likely the person should have refrained from voting, but his right to vote remains unless some rule says otherwise, or he is under disciplinary action.

Stay tuned. Tim is not so ruminative usually, and will be helpful.

[Tim Wynn]

The mayor of our city council has recently broken a tie vote on a six-member board of aldermen/woman. The tie was three yes votes and three abstentions [see FAQ # 6]. The motion was for a yes vote to remove one of the aldermen as "mayor pro-temp" of the board of aldermen/woman. One of those voting to abstain was the alderman who is the current mayor pro-temp that they were trying to remove.

1. According to Robert's Rules, can the "chair/president/mayor" cast the deciding vote for this motion? 2. Is it permissible for the three abstentions from voting on this motion to be considered a tie with the three "yes" votes on the motion? 3. Is it "legal" for the councilperson who is also the subject of the motion to participate in the voting? Should he be excused or ruled ineligible to vote on this motion?

1. The chair may vote when his vote would affect the outcome. However, in small boards the chair normally votes right along wit other members.

2. No, not in a majority vote. Abstentions do not count at all. So, the vote would be 3-0. However, if your rules call for a majority "of those present" or "of the entire membership," all abstentions have the same effect as negative votes.

3. Yes, members (which I'll assume he is) have the right to vote. However, RONR does advise that one should abstain from any vote in which he has an interest uncommon to others or that mentions him alone, but it goes on to say that a member cannot be compelled to refrain from voting.

4. No.

[Rob Elsman]

The mayor of our city council has recently broken a tie vote on a six-member board of aldermen/woman. The tie was three yes votes and three abstentions [see FAQ # 6]. The motion was for a yes vote to remove one of the aldermen as "mayor pro-temp" of the board of aldermen/woman. One of those voting to abstain was the alderman who is the current mayor pro-temp that they were trying to remove.

1. According to Robert's Rules, can the "chair/president/mayor" cast the deciding vote for this motion? 2. Is it permissible for the three abstentions from voting on this motion to be considered a tie with the three "yes" votes on the motion? 3. Is it "legal" for the councilperson who is also the subject of the motion to participate in the voting? Should he be excused or ruled ineligible to vote on this motion?

Is the mayor a voting member of the council? Sometimes (e.g., my city), the mayor presides though he is not a member.