Out of Order

[Guest Frazzled]

At a recent City Council meeting the Chair of a 7 member board was participating in discussion and when he was speaking, I was reading the write up and gently shook my head over what I read, preparing for my comment. He interjected a comment that there should be no head shaking. When I was recognized to speak I commented that reading minds is not appropriate as my head shaking had nothing at all to do with what he was saying and preceded to make my comment which was on point to the topic being discussed. He called me out of order yet I managed to finish my comment. The recent minutes submitted for approval did not capture all of my comment and at the appropriate time on the agenda I requsted they be corrected as is our normal course of action for corrections to submitted minutes, and the vote was in favor. First - can the chair call a member out of order for shaking their head? Second, what recourse does a member have in such a case - expecially since their comment is important to the discussion? Third, if the correction was made as to the normal course of action, yet the approved minutes do not reflect the correction, isn't that wrong? What happens if it is revealed that the correction was purposely not included?

[Gary c Tesser]

Well.

RONR prohibits "disturbing the assembly." (P. 384 or so.) Head-shaking is generally considered inoffensive. (That's my opinion, it's not specified in Robert's Rules.) If you scratched an itch, would he shoot you? If you had the temerity to get up to use the restroom, would he eat your children?

-- Ask him to cite a rule that prohibits head-shaking. How about squirming in boredom?

So ...

First question: The chairman can say, no head-shaking is allowed, if he says that head-shaking is disruptive. After all, it is his job to make rulings, based on the rules. (Let's assume that he is trying to doing so.) Any member can appeal this ruling. (Sometimes all of them should.)

Second: any member can raise a point of order, when it appears that a rule is being violated, like when a chairman orders members to keep their heads immobile. (Sometimes all the members should.)

Third: minutes are a record of what the assembly did, not what people said. If your minutes include comments, debate, and chatter, your group should stop it. (Be especially wary if someone starts with, "For the record ..." Because it's really not.)

But if your group''s imprudent custom is to include commentary in the minutes, and if anyone feels that some speech, or comment, should be in the minutes but it's not, then I suppose you can go (by a main motion) order that the minutes be corrected to include that speech or comment.

[Shmuel Gerber]

So ...

First question: The chairman can say, no head-shaking is allowed, if he says that head-shaking is disruptive. After all, it is his job to make rulings, based on the rules. (Let's assume that he is trying to doing so.) Any member can appeal this ruling. (Sometimes all of them should.)

Second: any member can raise a point of order, when it appears that a rule is being violated, like when a chairman orders members to keep their heads immobile. (Sometimes all the members should.)

When, exactly, would it be appropriate to make an appeal in this instance? According to the O.P., Mr./Ms. Frazzled, the chair simply made a comment in debate that there should be no head-shaking. Perhaps it would be more appropriate for the member to have called the chairman to order for making an irrelevant comment in debate at the time it occurred, just as the chair called the member to order for impertinently responding to his own impertinence.