juliegia1087 Posted November 12, 2011 at 04:33 AM Report Share Posted November 12, 2011 at 04:33 AM I am member of Rod and Gun Club which is private. we are one of the last club which allows smoking town has not harrassed us yet. Our new bar manager does not like smoking so he went to Board of health on his own club to see what he could do about the smoking. The board of directors are his friends can we skip over board and go right to membership for vote on taking action of him not acting in best interest of club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Nancy N. Posted November 12, 2011 at 08:32 AM Report Share Posted November 12, 2011 at 08:32 AM An organization's board of directors has only the authority granted to it by the bylaws (RONR, 11th Ed., p. 488). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Honemann Posted November 12, 2011 at 10:47 AM Report Share Posted November 12, 2011 at 10:47 AM An organization's board of directors has only the authority granted to it by the bylaws (RONR, 11th Ed., p. 488).Page 488 is nice, but page 482 might be a bit more help in this regard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Wynn Posted November 12, 2011 at 12:15 PM Report Share Posted November 12, 2011 at 12:15 PM I am member of Rod and Gun Club which is private. we are one of the last club which allows smoking town has not harrassed us yet. Our new bar manager does not like smoking so he went to Board of health on his own club to see what he could do about the smoking. The board of directors are his friends can we skip over board and go right to membership for vote on taking action of him not acting in best interest of club.Yes, RONR doesn't require the membership to wait for a board to act before taking action of its own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev Ed Posted November 12, 2011 at 05:47 PM Report Share Posted November 12, 2011 at 05:47 PM Tim, you may or may not be correct. We do not know what powers the Board actually has in this organization. If the Board has the power to run the club between association meetings, Tim is correct - the membership could hold a meeting and make a decision. However, if the Board has the authority to operate the club on behalf of the membership, then the Board would have to make a decision.However, before any decision is made, we are talking about a health and safety issue in the workplace as the manager has the right to work in an environment that will not place his/her health in jeopardy. And studies have shown that second hand smoke is dangerous. So if the club disciplines or fires the manager, the club may have a nasty lawsuit on its hand. I am surprised no one else has mentioned this!I would recommend taking a copy of the club's by-laws to a lawyer and finding out exactly what the club can do (and who can do it) before taking any action. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Nancy N. Posted November 12, 2011 at 06:11 PM Report Share Posted November 12, 2011 at 06:11 PM It's a rod and gun club, R. Ed, you gonna worry about second-hand smoke for his health (even without the hyphen, you Tronna daredevil you)?(Dan, thank you for the correction. In the future I maybe oughtta wait till the ink has dried on the page numbers in this book here before licking them.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Wynn Posted November 12, 2011 at 07:46 PM Report Share Posted November 12, 2011 at 07:46 PM Tim, you may or may not be correct. I'm correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Wynn Posted November 12, 2011 at 07:48 PM Report Share Posted November 12, 2011 at 07:48 PM ... the manager has the right to work in an environment that will not place his/her health in jeopardy. No such right exists in parliamentary law or RONR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juliegia1087 Posted November 13, 2011 at 10:17 AM Author Report Share Posted November 13, 2011 at 10:17 AM The Rod & Gun Club had a vote on Smoking 6 Months ago and was voting in by members we do not smoke at children events dinners or meetings. But smoking can stay. this is a volunteer position. By laws do say b.o.d. shall decide. but can membership over rule b.o.d if they dont like the out come. he has mentioned he will get lawyer he is ex smoker and been member for 16 yrs everyone who joins knows this is a smoking club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trina Posted November 13, 2011 at 12:08 PM Report Share Posted November 13, 2011 at 12:08 PM The Rod & Gun Club had a vote on Smoking 6 Months ago and was voting in by members we do not smoke at children events dinners or meetings. But smoking can stay. this is a volunteer position. By laws do say b.o.d. shall decide. but can membership over rule b.o.d if they dont like the out come. he has mentioned he will get lawyer he is ex smoker and been member for 16 yrs everyone who joins knows this is a smoking club.Regarding this question, see:Official Interpretation 2006-13If it gets to the point of legal action, consult a lawyer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Honemann Posted November 13, 2011 at 12:23 PM Report Share Posted November 13, 2011 at 12:23 PM "A board may never alter a decision of the society’s assembly (and an executive committee may never alter a decision of either the assembly or the board), even by a motion to Rescind or Amend Something Previously Adopted or by adoption of a proposal which has been rejected, unless expressly authorized by the superior body or by the bylaws..." (RONR, 11th ed., p. 577, ll. 23-28)."Except in matters placed by the bylaws exclusively under the control of the board, the society’s assembly can give the board instructions which it must carry out, and can rescind or amend any action of the board if it is not too late..." (RONR, 11th ed., p. 483, ll. 9-13). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev Ed Posted November 13, 2011 at 09:42 PM Report Share Posted November 13, 2011 at 09:42 PM No such right exists in parliamentary law or RONR.Tim you are missing the point - this issue may incur legal consequences which MUST be taken into account and I do believe that if an issue may fall outside the scope of parliamentary law and RONR what we should mention it."A board may never alter a decision of the society’s assembly (and an executive committee may never alter a decision of either the assembly or the board), even by a motion to Rescind or Amend Something Previously Adopted or by adoption of a proposal which has been rejected, unless expressly authorized by the superior body or by the bylaws..." (RONR, 11th ed., p. 577, ll. 23-28)."Except in matters placed by the bylaws exclusively under the control of the board, the society’s assembly can give the board instructions which it must carry out, and can rescind or amend any action of the board if it is not too late..." (RONR, 11th ed., p. 483, ll. 9-13).Thanks Dan - this is what I was trying to say Tim. It all depends on what the By-laws state. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Wynn Posted November 13, 2011 at 09:59 PM Report Share Posted November 13, 2011 at 09:59 PM Tim you are missing the point - this issue may incur legal consequences which MUST be taken into account and I do believe that if an issue may fall outside the scope of parliamentary law and RONR what we should mention it.Once again, RONR does not require that consequences be taken into account, legal or otherwise. An assembly is free to adopt bad decisions as readily as it can adopt good ones. Your post might be seen as suggesting that if legal ramifications have not been considered, a motion cannot be properly adopted or lost. Such is simply not the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Wynn Posted November 13, 2011 at 10:02 PM Report Share Posted November 13, 2011 at 10:02 PM Thanks Dan - this is what I was trying to say Tim. It all depends on what the By-laws state.I knew what you were TRYING to say, but what you SAID was that I might be wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev Ed Posted November 13, 2011 at 10:45 PM Report Share Posted November 13, 2011 at 10:45 PM Once again, RONR does not require that consequences be taken into account, legal or otherwise. An assembly is free to adopt bad decisions as readily as it can adopt good ones.Your post might be seen as suggesting that if legal ramifications have not been considered, a motion cannot be properly adopted or lost. Such is simply not the case.Sorry, I did not mean it that way. The motion would be in order. However it might not be "wise" to vote on the motion without considering the consequences - and this is the case of any motion. People should know that there could be "bad" consequences of blindly approving certain motions.I knew what you were TRYING to say, but what you SAID was that I might be wrong. But, if the Board is specifically empowered to do something then the general membership cannot make the decision. I was (and am) under the impression that you are stating that the general membership can always make decisions. However, if the Board specifically is empowered to do something (in this case to hire, fire, and discipline employees) then the general membership cannot make those decisions directly - they would have to replace members of the Board with people who would be willing to do so. If I am misunderstanding what you said, I am sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Novosielski Posted November 13, 2011 at 11:02 PM Report Share Posted November 13, 2011 at 11:02 PM What he said was: Yes, RONR doesn't require the membership to wait for a board to act before taking action of its own.I don't see the word "always" there, nor any suggestion that the rules in RONR would (incorrectly) supersede those in the bylaws. Since this forum is about the rules in RONR, and not about wisdom in general, I think you'd have to call it "correct". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Wynn Posted November 13, 2011 at 11:54 PM Report Share Posted November 13, 2011 at 11:54 PM But, if the Board is specifically empowered to do something then the general membership cannot make the decision. I was (and am) under the impression that you are stating that the general membership can always make decisions. However, if the Board specifically is empowered to do something (in this case to hire, fire, and discipline employees) then the general membership cannot make those decisions directly - they would have to replace members of the Board with people who would be willing to do so. If I am misunderstanding what you said, I am sorry.My post is meant to state that RONR does not authorize the board to prevent the assembly from taking action. Whether or not the bylaws do is a separate matter (though closely related). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev Ed Posted November 14, 2011 at 04:13 PM Report Share Posted November 14, 2011 at 04:13 PM My post is meant to state that RONR does not authorize the board to prevent the assembly from taking action. Whether or not the bylaws do is a separate matter (though closely related).Okay now I understand. However, as the By-laws would supercede RONR, any restrictions in the By-laws would restrict what the general membership might be able to do in this situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest juliegia1087 Posted November 14, 2011 at 05:35 PM Report Share Posted November 14, 2011 at 05:35 PM our by-laws state Any member found guilty of violating any of these articles or if not covered specifically by an article, is deemed not to have acted in best interest of the club,may be reprimanded, suspended or expelled, as the Board of Directors shall decide. The member may also be called to attend the Board of Directors meeting at the Boards discretion. But is there anyway around that since the membership appointed him for that position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Edgar Posted November 14, 2011 at 05:44 PM Report Share Posted November 14, 2011 at 05:44 PM The member may also be called to attend the Board of Directors meeting at the Boards discretion.Forced to attend a board meeting? Sounds like cruel and unusual punishment to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev Ed Posted November 14, 2011 at 10:53 PM Report Share Posted November 14, 2011 at 10:53 PM our by-laws state Any member found guilty of violating any of these articles or if not covered specifically by an article, is deemed not to have acted in best interest of the club,may be reprimanded, suspended or expelled, as the Board of Directors shall decide. The member may also be called to attend the Board of Directors meeting at the Boards discretion. But is there anyway around that since the membership appointed him for that position.Unless the manager is also a member of the organization, the By-law clause that you mention would not cover the issue as the By-law covers members of the club. What do the By-laws state specifically about the Board's authority? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest juliegia1087 Posted November 15, 2011 at 03:12 AM Report Share Posted November 15, 2011 at 03:12 AM Yes he is a member bylaws say The Board of directors shall have charge of affairs, fund, property of the club; shall fill vacancies in any office as it may deem necessary for the proper operation of the club subject to the vote of the club membership. they shall appoint committees as it may deem necessary for the proper operation of the club. Five (5) members of the board of directors shall constitude a quorum, a majority vote issues shall prevail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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