when is motion approved and ready to work with

[Guest mary]

when is the motion law...when reponse is more yes or when the min. get approved and offical.

[J. J.]

when is the motion law...when reponse is more yes or when the min. get approved and offical.

The motion, unless the effect is delayed, becomes effective upon adoption (p. 111, fn.)

[Trina]

when is the motion law...when reponse is more yes or when the min. get approved and offical.

The approval (or lack of approval) of the minutes has absolutely nothing to do with the time at which an adopted motion takes effect. .

Delaying approval of the minutes, or refusing to approve the minutes in hopes of delaying or negating an approved motion is an exercise in futility.

[Rev Ed]

There are two ways that a motion can take effect at a later time:

1) When the motion contains a statement to the effect. As in, "That the new clubhouse hours take effect on the first of May."

2) When specified in the By-laws. For example, if the elections take place in April and new terms start on May 1st. Thus the motions (elections) take effect at a later date.

The only other example off the top of my head is with the Budget. But then as the Fiscal Year would be set in advance, as would the Budget, then the Budget would not take effect until the start of the Fiscal Year.

[Guest mary]

HERE'S WHY I ASK....JOB DUTY..WRITTEN INTERNAL CONTROL..SAY'S ONE THING BUT COUCIL MOTION JUST THE OPPOSITE. EMPLOYEES DON'T SEE A WRITTEN CONTROL ON IT...THINKING THERE IS NON. DOES GRIEVENCE. WRITTEN CONTROL ALSO STATES...NOTHING CAN BE CHANGED VERBALY. MOTION DOCUMENTAION...STATES OUT COME OF VOTES..FAVOR...BUT ALSO STATES...MIN. NOT APPROVED YET.

HAS TO DO WITH ONE MANAGER..HAVING CONTROL OF ANOTHER DEPARTMENT. AND THAT MANAGER OF THE DEPARTMENT...HOW DO YOU SEE THE END RESULT OF THIS IF TAKEN TO COUNCIL.

[David A Foulkes]

Mary - could you turn your CAPS LOCK key off please? And also, if you could write in complete sentences, I believe that could really help.

[Trina]

Mary, please try again. I can't really make heads or tails of what you said above.

[Guest mary]

ok, guys here try this again..sorry..job duty of employees were affected by this motion made at a council meeting. Now, council motioned to have G.M. take over controls of another department and that departments manager duties. In our written internal controls it states this. G.M. doesn't over see the department in question. However at the council meeting, a motion was made for the G.M. to do the opposite. But the employees don't see that in written form anywhere. Now G.M. hires a new department manager that has less qualifications and sinority than someone else. And on the motion documentation that was sent to employee states, the results of the motion and min. not yet approved. So there is nothing in the written controls that G.M. can do this. This written control has to do with protecting assist in the bussiness. Motion to give G.M. control of department was not made public. Grievence is in process of going to council. How do you see the end result. Thanks.

[Guest mary]

ok, guys here try this again..sorry..job duty of employees were affected by this motion made at a council meeting. Now, council motioned to have G.M. take over controls of another department and that departments manager duties. In our written internal controls it states this. G.M. doesn't over see the department in question. However at the council meeting, a motion was made for the G.M. to do the opposite. But the employees don't see that in written form anywhere. Now G.M. hires a new department manager that has less qualifications and sinority than someone else. And on the motion documentation that was sent to employee states, the results of the motion and min. not yet approved. So there is nothing in the written controls that G.M. can do this. This written control has to do with protecting assist in the bussiness. Motion to give G.M. control of department was not made public. Grievence is in process of going to council. How do you see the end result. Thanks.

[J. J.]

ok, guys here try this again..sorry..job duty of employees were affected by this motion made at a council meeting. Now, council motioned to have G.M. take over controls of another department and that departments manager duties. In our written internal controls it states this. G.M. doesn't over see the department in question. However at the council meeting, a motion was made for the G.M. to do the opposite. But the employees don't see that in written form anywhere. Now G.M. hires a new department manager that has less qualifications and sinority than someone else. And on the motion documentation that was sent to employee states, the results of the motion and min. not yet approved. So there is nothing in the written controls that G.M. can do this. This written control has to do with protecting assist in the bussiness. Motion to give G.M. control of department was not made public. Grievence is in process of going to council. How do you see the end result. Thanks.

And that still doesn't change the answer. The motion goes into effect when adopted, unless the effect is delayed.

[David A Foulkes]

How do you see the end result[?]

If you mean will we prognosticate on the outcome of this battle? No. Not me anyway.

If you mean what can be done about all this, particularly as it pertains to RONR, I'm not holding out much hope for you, at least not yet. What I see is an awful lot of stuff that has to do with your governing documents, and what (unknown) authority they give to the players involved (the council, the Departments and managers, the GM, the membership, etc).

You use the word "council", and also reference making information "public", so I now wonder if (any of) the entities involved are public bodies, which may also bring into play applicable laws, including Open Meeting laws perhaps. That may entail involving, or at least getting advice from, a lawyer familiar with the situation. I may be off base on this, so I'm just mentioning it.

[Trina]

ok, guys here try this again..sorry..job duty of employees were affected by this motion made at a council meeting. Now, council motioned to have G.M. take over controls of another department and that departments manager duties. In our written internal controls it states this. G.M. doesn't over see the department in question. However at the council meeting, a motion was made for the G.M. to do the opposite. But the employees don't see that in written form anywhere. Now G.M. hires a new department manager that has less qualifications and sinority than someone else. And on the motion documentation that was sent to employee states, the results of the motion and min. not yet approved. So there is nothing in the written controls that G.M. can do this. This written control has to do with protecting assist in the bussiness. Motion to give G.M. control of department was not made public. Grievence is in process of going to council. How do you see the end result. Thanks.

It is difficult to know to what extent the rules in RONR apply here, as we don't know the nature or structure of this organization, and as you use very few terms (other than 'meeting' and 'motion') with clear analogs in RONR. From a RONR perspective, if "written internal controls" is some sort of governing document in the nature of bylaws, then the question would be whether the "council" has the authority to go against, or possibly amend, that governing document. If the council does not have that authority, then a motion to do something that is against the rules of the governing document would be null and void. If the council does have that authority, then the motion would take effect the moment it is adopted (regardless of any subsequent written documentation).

Since you say that a new department manager has now been hired by "the G.M." who was (correctly or incorrectly) given new authority by the adopted motion, it's worth pointing out that contracts and employment agreements can't be undone by purely parliamentary means (contracts are in the legal arena). So, even if the council did something it was clearly not allowed to do, that wouldn't mean that the new manager is automatically 'unhired.'

If you are asking about the "end result" of the grievance process, we here have no idea -- that's beyond the topic of discussion of this forum (Robert's Rules of Order).

[Guest Guest]

so,, all in all it looks like i get stuck between a rock and a hard place....thanks anyway. comments helped alot. all i can say is this. at least i tried. getting a backbone will doing it. thanks.