Roberts Rules Question-violation of bylaws-Need your help!

[Guest Michael Jax]

Hello RR experts,

Needing some insight here and your help. Please provide references if you can. If a vote happened to remove a person from an organization, but that vote is in direct violation of the organization's bylaws.

Questions:

1. What kind of actions can the person being removed take?

2. Is the vote automatically void, just like it never happened and so this person has not been technically removed?

3. Does the person being removed have to go through an appeals process for this person to be reinstated even if the motion was in violation of their own bylaws?

Common sense to me dictates, that if the rule they use pass a motion is wrong, then the motion that passed should be considered baseless and unenforceable. So its just like it never happened. I dont know if this applies to RR.

Thanks for the help,

Ray

[Bruce Lages]

On p. 251 of RONR, 11th ed., it states that one of the actions constituting a continuing breach, i.e., a violation of the rules for which a point of order does not have to be made at the time the violation occurs and can be raised at any time, is :

"a main motion has been adopted that conflicts with the bylaws (or constitution) of the organization or assembly" (ll. 9-10)

Further down on p. 251, it states that, regarding all continuing breaches,:

"In all such cases it is never too late to raise a point of order since any such action taken is null and void." (ll.25-26)

So, to answer your specific questions:

1) a point of order should be raised at the next meeting, probably by someone other than the affected member, that the removal is in violation of the bylaws and is therefore null and void. If the chair rules against this point of order, be prepared to appeal that ruling to the assembly for the final decision (you'll need someone else to second the appeal).

2) as noted above, yes.

3) no, since the action taken, if truly in violation of the bylaws, is null and void, so the removal, in effect, never happened.

[Guest Michael Jax]

Thank you. Some few other questions:

1. How and when does one enter an a point of order? at what point in the assembly?

2. Also, would a quick email to the executive board pointing out the violation be enough to nullify this motion? or the "point of order" needs to be entered via the assembly. The issue is the next assembly is the last meeting for everyone-- and most if not all, end their term. This was a ganging ploy to remove someone in office, these people didn't like.

3. Is the action that violated their own bylaws considered "illegal?"

[jstackpo]

1) Whenever you can get recognition... BUT if the point is NOT about a continuing breach (p. 251), you have to interrupt and raise it just as soon as the violation takes place (do that for a "continuing breach" too if you are in the meeting when the breach takes place), or else it will be too late - p. 250.

2) No. You need to be in a meeting.

3). No, not in the, um, legal sense. Improper and null and void.