Guest John Lee Posted July 22, 2012 at 05:20 PM Report Share Posted July 22, 2012 at 05:20 PM Our neighborhood has a swim and tennis club that consists of about 150 resident members. It has been proposed we change our bylaws to allow proxy voting. I mostly read where Roberts Rules discourage proxy voting, yet the member who advocates proxy voting cites page 282 of "Webster's Robert's Rules of Order, Simplified and Applied", which apparently says proxy voting is an "advisable" method for organizations in which members have a financial interest, such as neighborhood associations.I don't know if Webster's Simplified & Applied version is acceptable to use (our Bylaws state we will follow Roberts Rules of Order), or if the specific sentence referred to in Webster's version was taken out of context, but I would appreciate any thoughts on the intent of Roberts Rules of Order concerning proxy voting, and whether it is "advisable", or even acceptable, for neighborhood associations. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 22, 2012 at 07:14 PM Report Share Posted July 22, 2012 at 07:14 PM On the subject about proxies, does RONR say anything about a member having 7 proxies in a row? Our bylaws allow proxies, yet In researching there is not a determined end. This member has only showed up for one meeting, and gave the proxy to another member (meeting that rule) 10 times.Is this an area that needs to be discussed and amended through our bylaws?Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David A Foulkes Posted July 22, 2012 at 07:22 PM Report Share Posted July 22, 2012 at 07:22 PM Anonymous Guest_Guest, assuming you aren't Guest_John_Lee (since his bylaws do NOT allow proxy voting, and yours apparently do), it's really highly inappropriate not only to hijack someone else's question with your own, but to do so before the original poster has even received a single reply to his question (for which this thread exists) is just downright rude. Let Guest_John_Lee have his question, and if you want to ask one, start your own question. I don't really care if you can't come up with even a decent fake name, but ask your own questions in your own threads and leave John_Lee's (and anyone else's for that matter) alone. And that's just my own opinion, and in no way should be construed as policy here on the RONR-MB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Edgar Posted July 22, 2012 at 07:57 PM Report Share Posted July 22, 2012 at 07:57 PM I don't know if Webster's Simplified & Applied version is acceptable to use (our Bylaws state we will follow Roberts Rules of Order), or if the specific sentence referred to in Webster's version was taken out of context, but I would appreciate any thoughts on the intent of Roberts Rules of Order concerning proxy voting, and whether it is "advisable", or even acceptable, for neighborhood associations. Thanks.On the subject about proxies, does RONR say anything about a member having 7 proxies in a row?Mr. Foulkes' sensitivity to "hijacking" notwithstanding ("downright rude"?), both questioners are advised to review FAQ #10 and Mr. Lee's organization is particularly advised to get a copy of The Right Book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Wynn Posted July 22, 2012 at 08:27 PM Report Share Posted July 22, 2012 at 08:27 PM Our neighborhood has a swim and tennis club that consists of about 150 resident members. It has been proposed we change our bylaws to allow proxy voting. I mostly read where Roberts Rules discourage proxy voting, yet the member who advocates proxy voting cites page 282 of "Webster's Robert's Rules of Order, Simplified and Applied", which apparently says proxy voting is an "advisable" method for organizations in which members have a financial interest, such as neighborhood associations.I don't know if Webster's Simplified & Applied version is acceptable to use (our Bylaws state we will follow Roberts Rules of Order), or if the specific sentence referred to in Webster's version was taken out of context, but I would appreciate any thoughts on the intent of Roberts Rules of Order concerning proxy voting, and whether it is "advisable", or even acceptable, for neighborhood associations. Thanks.Proxy voting violates a fundamental principle of parliamentary law, which states that the right to vote is limited to members who are present in a meeting at the time of the vote. It's up to your organization to decide if it wishes to deviate from this principle, which it may, by the adoption of a bylaw provision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David A Foulkes Posted July 22, 2012 at 08:31 PM Report Share Posted July 22, 2012 at 08:31 PM And just to follow up a little on Mr. Wynn's post, if you decide to authorize proxy voting, along with that will also need to be all the rules you'll need to manage the proxy voting. And I suspect you'll run into more than just a few, judging by the number of posts on the topic in this forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Honemann Posted July 22, 2012 at 08:41 PM Report Share Posted July 22, 2012 at 08:41 PM I don't know if Webster's Simplified & Applied version is acceptable to use (our Bylaws state we will follow Roberts Rules of Order), ,,,The answer to this one is easy. No, it is not. Not even close. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Wynn Posted July 22, 2012 at 08:44 PM Report Share Posted July 22, 2012 at 08:44 PM And just to follow up a little on Mr. Wynn's post, if you decide to authorize proxy voting, along with that will also need to be all the rules you'll need to manage the proxy voting. And I suspect you'll run into more than just a few, judging by the number of posts on the topic in this forum.They will likely run into a nightmare, as well as creating an avalanche of questions without clear answers. It's their choice, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David A Foulkes Posted July 22, 2012 at 09:24 PM Report Share Posted July 22, 2012 at 09:24 PM They will likely run into a nightmare, as well as creating an avalanche of questions without clear answers. It's their choice, though. Yes, but what must be must be, and that is all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sMargaret Posted July 23, 2012 at 01:01 PM Report Share Posted July 23, 2012 at 01:01 PM Guest John Lee, where you typically see proxy voting is in a situation where it is difficult to get people to come to meetings, such as for reasons of distance. Given your situation - a neighborhood swim and tennis club - I would suggest that proxies would not be needed, unless it is difficult to get people to come to meetings for other reasons. If this is the case, there are many other ways of trying to get people to come to meetings (food and controversy often work), that don't involve the use of proxies and their associated difficulties. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary c Tesser Posted July 23, 2012 at 02:51 PM Report Share Posted July 23, 2012 at 02:51 PM Why has sMargaret not been nominated yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David A Foulkes Posted July 23, 2012 at 06:23 PM Report Share Posted July 23, 2012 at 06:23 PM I would suggest that proxies would not be needed, unless it is difficult to get people to come to meetings for other reasons. And that really is at the core of Guest_John_Lee's post :: why does the membership feel proxies are the way to go? Which is to ask, why aren't the members putting down their rackets and taking off their snorkels and masks and heading over to the meetin' hall? The myriad problems and inherent dangers of proxy voting far outweigh the convenience of not having to actually attend meetings. So, Guest_John_Lee, what's the scoop?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Edgar Posted July 23, 2012 at 07:11 PM Report Share Posted July 23, 2012 at 07:11 PM Which is to ask, why aren't the members putting down their rackets and taking off their snorkels and masks and heading over to the meetin' hall?Perhaps because most people don't join tennis clubs or swimming clubs or hockey clubs so that they can attend meetings?The fact that RONR does not endorse the use of proxies does not mean that there aren't instances when it might make perfect sense for an organization to permit those who have no interest in attending meetings to assign their vote to a trusted friend who does. It seems to me that some input, even if indirect, is better than no input.What I find distasteful about proxies is the common practice of having them assigned by default to, for example, the secretary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David A Foulkes Posted July 23, 2012 at 07:57 PM Report Share Posted July 23, 2012 at 07:57 PM Perhaps because most people don't join tennis clubs or swimming clubs or hockey clubs so that they can attend meetings?Quite likely. Perhaps they should make it so you can join the "club" and be a "member" without being a member of the governing body. You know, so you can just go swimming, or practice your lob, without having to vote on anything or worry about busting a quorum.John Lee? Please come back before we hit 50 posts without you and this thread gets locked down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest John Lee Posted July 23, 2012 at 10:01 PM Report Share Posted July 23, 2012 at 10:01 PM Thanks to all who have provided input.In response to why some on our Board would want proxy voting, this is just my opinion, but I believe the desire to have proxy voting is because they believe it will be easier for them to forward their agenda. I envision the Board soliciting votes by proxy on major issues without the member (assigning their vote by proxy) having an opportunity to hear an opposing viewpoint. I think the only reason for proxy voting is to gather votes without the benefit of members hearing the pros & cons debated in an open forum before casting their vote.FYI, It is part of our Board's proxy proposal that proxy votes would count towards a quorum.To get proxy voting, the Board will have to amend the bylaws. Instead of following RONC as our bylaws state (unless in direct conflict with the bylaws), the Board wants to embrace a paragraph from "Webster's Robert's Rules, Simplified and Applied" that states proxy voting is "advisable" for neighborhood associations, and has published this paragraph to give members the impression proxy voting is not only permissible, but advisable, according to RONC.The battle goes on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trina Posted July 23, 2012 at 10:12 PM Report Share Posted July 23, 2012 at 10:12 PM ...To get proxy voting, the Board will have to amend the bylaws.Hopefully the authority to amend the bylaws is not directly in the hands of the board (?)Instead of following RONC as our bylaws state (unless in direct conflict with the bylaws), the Board wants to embrace a paragraph from "Webster's Robert's Rules, Simplified and Applied" that states proxy voting is "advisable" for neighborhood associations, and has published this paragraph to give members the impression proxy voting is not only permissible, but advisable, according to RONC....Look at post #7 again, and also note that Mr. Honemann is one of the authors of RONR (which is the official codification of Robert's Rules and the parliamentary authority apparently specified in your bylaws... although your reference to 'RONC' is a little confusing). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sMargaret Posted July 24, 2012 at 01:20 AM Report Share Posted July 24, 2012 at 01:20 AM Why has sMargaret not been nominated yet?For what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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