Guest ConcernedCitizen Posted September 3, 2012 at 07:19 PM Report Share Posted September 3, 2012 at 07:19 PM In our meeting a motion came to a vote on the floor and due to a miscount, it was approved. We didn't notice it was miscounted until after the meeting. So, when we go to approve the minutes in the next meeting how exactly do we go about fixing that. Do I say, "I move to amend the minutes to rescind the motion" or what exactly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Edgar Posted September 3, 2012 at 08:09 PM Report Share Posted September 3, 2012 at 08:09 PM In our meeting a motion came to a vote on the floor and due to a miscount, it was approved. We didn't notice it was miscounted until after the meeting. So, when we go to approve the minutes in the next meeting how exactly do we go about fixing that. Do I say, "I move to amend the minutes to rescind the motion" or what exactly?The minutes should accurately record what happened, even if what happened was wrong.When, and if, you address the mistakenly approved motion, that will be recorded in the minutes of that meeting.In other words, you don't re-write history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trina Posted September 3, 2012 at 08:11 PM Report Share Posted September 3, 2012 at 08:11 PM Nothing to fix in the minutes. The announcement that the motion was approved stands, since that is what actually happened, and since no point of order (about the counting error) was raised at the time.It sounds like the sort of error that would have had to be challenged by a point of order right on the spot. However, on the chance that something else was involved, how did this miscount come about, and how was it determined "after the meeting" that a miscount had occurred?The adopted motion could be rescinded at the next meeting, if that is what the membership wants to do (and if the motion has not yet been fully executed). A motion to rescind requires two-thirds vote without notice OR majority vote with notice OR majority vote of the entire membership. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ConcernedCitizen Posted September 3, 2012 at 08:19 PM Report Share Posted September 3, 2012 at 08:19 PM But it wasn't really approved..What happened is our secretary (who counts the votes) didn't realize she was supposed to vote. I wasn't thinking when I heard the count of 5 for 4 against and 1 abstention. I just thought okay 9 people majority 5. But there are 11 voting members and majority is 6. So, technically the motion failed but the words the motion passes came out of my mouth and went into the minutes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tctheatc Posted September 3, 2012 at 08:25 PM Report Share Posted September 3, 2012 at 08:25 PM 5 for and 4 against IS a majority vote. If there is a pertinent rule requiring a majority of the entire membership (11) that's another story. But it may very well be you were right the 1st time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trina Posted September 3, 2012 at 08:28 PM Report Share Posted September 3, 2012 at 08:28 PM But it wasn't really approved..What happened is our secretary (who counts the votes) didn't realize she was supposed to vote. I wasn't thinking when I heard the count of 5 for 4 against and 1 abstention. I just thought okay 9 people majority 5. But there are 11 voting members and majority is 6. So, technically the motion failed but the words the motion passes came out of my mouth and went into the minutes.Why was the secretary "supposed to vote"? Any member is free to abstain from voting, and if she didn't vote, she didn't vote. Also, majority vote means a majority of those who actually voted -- 5 out of 9 people voting is certainly a majority. Do you have reason to believe that 6 votes are really needed to adopt a motion in your case (i.e. do you have specialized rules which supersede what is said in RONR about majority vote)?Also, even if 6 votes were actually required... if the chair made an error, thought that 5 was adequate, and announced that the motion was adopted, then the motion was adopted.edited to add:If you, as chair, truly made an error, you may find the following official interpretation interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Novosielski Posted September 3, 2012 at 08:30 PM Report Share Posted September 3, 2012 at 08:30 PM But it wasn't really approved..What happened is our secretary (who counts the votes) didn't realize she was supposed to vote. I wasn't thinking when I heard the count of 5 for 4 against and 1 abstention. I just thought okay 9 people majority 5. But there are 11 voting members and majority is 6. So, technically the motion failed but the words the motion passes came out of my mouth and went into the minutes.In the first place, yes, it was really approved, if the chair announced that the motion passed and nobody raised a point of order at the time. In the second place, a vote of 5-4 is a clear majority, so the point of order, even if raised would not have been well taken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Edgar Posted September 3, 2012 at 09:10 PM Report Share Posted September 3, 2012 at 09:10 PM . . . the words the motion passes came out of my mouth and went into the minutes.Good! That's the way it works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ConcernedCitizen Posted September 3, 2012 at 09:18 PM Report Share Posted September 3, 2012 at 09:18 PM Alright, secretary did not abstain. She didn't know she had a vote. Like the other exec (VP and pres) don't vote. It is per our bylaws that majority of the quorum passes the motion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Edgar Posted September 3, 2012 at 09:28 PM Report Share Posted September 3, 2012 at 09:28 PM Alright, secretary did not abstain. She didn't know she had a vote.If you can vote and you don't, you abstained. It doesn't matter why you didn't vote.It is per our bylaws that majority of the quorum passes the motion.A majority of the quorum? Is that exactly what your bylaws say? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ConcernedCitizen Posted September 3, 2012 at 09:45 PM Report Share Posted September 3, 2012 at 09:45 PM I'm sorry I meant a majority of all members (11) not of quorum. That is what I've been told by previous officers but in the constitution I found "Simple majority shall be 50% + 1 vote of all voting members". I don't know if that means voting members present or total voting members. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Edgar Posted September 3, 2012 at 09:50 PM Report Share Posted September 3, 2012 at 09:50 PM I don't know if that means voting members present or total voting members.Alas, neither do we. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ConcernedCitizen Posted September 3, 2012 at 09:54 PM Report Share Posted September 3, 2012 at 09:54 PM Alright.. so what I'm gonna take away from this is. Because I said it passed and no one made a point of order.. then it passed. If the members wish to they can move to rescind the motion and that goes to a 2/3s vote. And they can do that even though its a new meeting and the minutes have already been approved. Right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Edgar Posted September 3, 2012 at 10:18 PM Report Share Posted September 3, 2012 at 10:18 PM Right?Right.And do yourself a huge favor and get a copy of RONR In Brief.And do yourself another favor and become a member of this forum. I can assure you that you won't miss having to figure out the hideous CAPTCHA code. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Novosielski Posted September 4, 2012 at 04:21 AM Report Share Posted September 4, 2012 at 04:21 AM I'm sorry I meant a majority of all members (11) not of quorum. That is what I've been told by previous officers but in the constitution I found "Simple majority shall be 50% + 1 vote of all voting members". I don't know if that means voting members present or total voting members.I would submit that a "voting member" is a member who votes. The word for someone who has the right to vote is simply a "member". But I would also submit that a majority is not 50% +1, so you are still left to interpret (and then improve) your bylaws. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tctheatc Posted September 4, 2012 at 06:07 AM Report Share Posted September 4, 2012 at 06:07 AM Can a voting member who doesn't vote, and is therefore not voting, be a voting member at the time he's not voting?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sMargaret Posted September 4, 2012 at 01:48 PM Report Share Posted September 4, 2012 at 01:48 PM In addition to getting a copy of RONR, and RONR in Brief (newly revised! don't get the older version!), also look at changing your bylaws. "Simple majority shall be 50% + 1 vote of all voting members" - piffle. The math is incorrect (what is 50% of 11 plus 1, hmm? that would require at least 6.5 to pass, so 7 votes), and the meaning of "all voting members" is debatable. You may also wish to check your bylaws about your secretary, VP, and president voting, as RONR would not remove from any of them the right to vote (unless they're not actually general members). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David A Foulkes Posted September 5, 2012 at 12:37 PM Report Share Posted September 5, 2012 at 12:37 PM "Simple majority shall be 50% + 1 vote of all voting members".Actually, I think this is a Complex majority. A Simple majority would be a lot simpler (i.e. more than half the votes cast). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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