Recording Votes

[cpnet]

I've read the posts here (and in RONR 11 ed.) about recording votes in minutes.

The practice for our board has been to record the count of 'for' votes vs. the total possible votes (i.e. "4/6") in our minutes. The Chair (a voting member) is typically not included in total if they don't vote, so in the example, 4 people voted for' and 7 voting members were present. We don't name who voted which way.

Quorum for our board is 5, and we often just make quorum for out meetings. I understand that you don't have to record the count if the Chair doesn't count the vote. We vote by a show of hands, and with so few members present, it's impossible not to immediately know how many voted each way. I'm not sure if that then counts and counting?

We've also had concerns with transparency at out board in the past, so I like the idea of continuing to include at least the count of votes in our minutes.

If we're going to continue to count votes, what's the correct way to record them, using last night as an example?

1. "4/4" - {this has been our practice to date, but it makes it seem as if we didn't have quorum when if fact we did}
   
2. "4/5 (Chair Abstained)" - {I'm thinking this might be the best, clearest choice, and we would only note when the Chair abstained, not 'regular' members who abstained}
   
3. "4/5"
   
4. ???
   

Thanks!

[David A Foulkes]

Vote counts should be recorded when the vote is by ballot, or when a counted vote has been ordered. P. 470 ll. 29ff will clarify how that should be recorded. Otherwise, the minutes should reflect only that the motion was adopted or lost. If you wish to continue your practice of recording (what amounts to) uncounted votes, RONR will not advise you on the method to use.

[cpnet]

Vote counts should be recorded when the vote is by ballot, or when a counted vote has been ordered. P. 470 ll. 29ff will clarify how that should be recorded. Otherwise, the minutes should reflect only that the motion was adopted or lost. If you wish to continue your practice of recording (what amounts to) uncounted votes, RONR will not advise you on the method to use.

Thanks David. For the sake of argument, let's say the count had been ordered. What would be the correct form for recording this? I can't seem to find specific rules on this other than what is listed on the page you referenced. That implies I require a count of some sort of those voting for, vs. those voting against. In this context, are abstainers included in the 'aganist' count, or can/should they be broken out? And where does the Chair fall in the count if they are abstaining because they are the Chair, and their vote would not change the result?

[Guest Edgar]

In this context, are abstainers included in the 'aganist' count, or can/should they be broken out? And where does the Chair fall in the count if they are abstaining because they are the Chair, and their vote would not change the result?

See FAQ #6.

[George Mervosh]

See FAQ #6.

SG got to you, eh?

[Guest Edgar]

SG got to you, eh?

One could do (much) worse than to heed his sage counsel (even if it's only implied or inferred).

[Sean Hunt]

If you wish to continue your practice of recording (what amounts to) uncounted votes, RONR will not advise you on the method to use.

A simple rule (I suppose it would have to be a special rule of order) ordering that all votes be counted seems more than sufficient.

[George Mervosh]

One could do (much) worse than to heed his sage counsel (even if it's only implied or inferred).

Those of us in the cognoscenti always heed it, to be sure.