Guest Phyllis Toohey Posted December 14, 2012 at 09:16 PM Report Share Posted December 14, 2012 at 09:16 PM Our association's bylaws provide thatonly members who have paid their dues and are in good standing are allowed to vote in elections.At our recent election, two people voted who are not members in good standing.Is there a procedure in robert's rules that allows one to contest or invalidate the election?Thank you,Phyllis Toohey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Edgar Posted December 14, 2012 at 09:34 PM Report Share Posted December 14, 2012 at 09:34 PM At our recent election, two people voted who are not members in good standing.Is there a procedure in robert's rules that allows one to contest or invalidate the election?Could the two votes have affected the outcome of any of the elections (i.e. any office)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest phyllis tooney Posted December 15, 2012 at 01:41 AM Report Share Posted December 15, 2012 at 01:41 AM Yes. It was a close vote where one candidate lost by 1 vote. The two votes could have made a difference. Could the two votes have affected the outcome of any of the elections (i.e. any office)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jstackpo Posted December 15, 2012 at 02:29 AM Report Share Posted December 15, 2012 at 02:29 AM In that case, that particular election (but not others that were won by a larger margin, even though they may have been on the same ballot) is void. Run it (that one only) again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jstackpo Posted December 15, 2012 at 02:33 AM Report Share Posted December 15, 2012 at 02:33 AM P. 416 sets out the rule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest VaNxHC Posted December 15, 2012 at 01:21 PM Report Share Posted December 15, 2012 at 01:21 PM P. 416 sets out the rule.Do you have the chapter or section number in RONR; or what chapter/page in RONIB 2nd Ed. I have RONIB 2nd Ed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David A Foulkes Posted December 15, 2012 at 01:32 PM Report Share Posted December 15, 2012 at 01:32 PM Do you have the chapter or section number in RONR; or what chapter/page in RONIB 2nd Ed. I have RONIB 2nd Ed.I don't believe RONR-IB includes the explicit statement. You'll find it in RONR (11th Ed.) on p. 416, lines 30-33. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Guest Posted December 15, 2012 at 01:33 PM Report Share Posted December 15, 2012 at 01:33 PM When redoing the vote, must only the same exact members vote, or can additional members vote? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David A Foulkes Posted December 15, 2012 at 01:35 PM Report Share Posted December 15, 2012 at 01:35 PM When redoing the vote, must only the same exact members vote, or can additional members vote?Anyone who is a member of the assembly at the time the vote is taken may vote, regardless of how (or if) they voted in the previous round. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Guest Posted December 15, 2012 at 02:46 PM Report Share Posted December 15, 2012 at 02:46 PM Thank you for your help! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 2HEHah Posted December 15, 2012 at 07:41 PM Report Share Posted December 15, 2012 at 07:41 PM Is there a time frame within which the vote must be declared null and void? The meeting was held the day before yesterday in the evening (Thurs.). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Edgar Posted December 15, 2012 at 07:46 PM Report Share Posted December 15, 2012 at 07:46 PM Is there a time frame within which the vote must be declared null and void?No, as it constitutes what's referred to as a "continuing breach" (of the rules). Obviously, though, the sooner the better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jstackpo Posted December 15, 2012 at 08:12 PM Report Share Posted December 15, 2012 at 08:12 PM Sooner, indeed, but...The (formal) "declaration" will have to take place at a meeting, at which the invalidated election can be run, properly this time. It would be VERY wise to advertise, in the call for the meeting, that this, among other appropriate matters, will be taken care of, and explain why it is necessary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Guest Posted December 15, 2012 at 09:22 PM Report Share Posted December 15, 2012 at 09:22 PM One more question: In this same election, the Election Inspector for the contesting candidate (the contesting candidate one by 1 vote) also acted as a Teller and used his own membership list, not the official Association membership list that was filed with the Secretary. He sat at the table checking in members and he handed out the ballots to members who were not in good standing (consequently, they were also members that he knew). Is he allowed to function in all of these capacities and only work from his own list, not the official list? If not, can he be disciplined for his actions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Edgar Posted December 15, 2012 at 09:44 PM Report Share Posted December 15, 2012 at 09:44 PM Is he allowed to function in all of these capacities and only work from his own list, not the official list?Apparently, though it's hard to understand why he was allowed to. Next time you might want to have more than one teller. See p. 414 for guidance.255EJ3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jstackpo Posted December 15, 2012 at 09:46 PM Report Share Posted December 15, 2012 at 09:46 PM In the order of your questions:NO! You betcha! Talk about a dubious election! Wow. Don't let him get away with that one again (taking your version of the events at your word).RONR, p. 414, sez "the chair appoints tellers to distribute, collect, and count the ballots ...". I trust your president will appoint folks who will work from the official membership list. (And can count!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Guest Posted December 15, 2012 at 10:38 PM Report Share Posted December 15, 2012 at 10:38 PM Yeah, it was mighty crazy indeed. This person and his buddy (the contesting candidate who won and shouldn't have) have been controlling the organization for years and they have maligned and walked all over past presidents. We finally got a new president this year who can't be shoved around (thank goodness). They have also had the board stacked with their friends for years. The board is finally starting to turn over and all the new board members see them for the creeps that they are and things are starting to change. What is the procedure to to dicipline these guys? Can we get them removed from the board? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Britton Posted December 16, 2012 at 01:18 AM Report Share Posted December 16, 2012 at 01:18 AM Yeah, it was mighty crazy indeed. This person and his buddy (the contesting candidate who won and shouldn't have) have been controlling the organization for years and they have maligned and walked all over past presidents. We finally got a new president this year who can't be shoved around (thank goodness). They have also had the board stacked with their friends for years. The board is finally starting to turn over and all the new board members see them for the creeps that they are and things are starting to change. What is the procedure to to dicipline these guys? Can we get them removed from the board?Now that your election questions are answered, regarding discipline, please read your bylaws and RONR chapter twenty. For additional answers you should post a new question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Guest Posted December 16, 2012 at 05:35 AM Report Share Posted December 16, 2012 at 05:35 AM Does a special meeting of the board of the directors have to be called to declare the vote null and void? If not, then how is it put forth that the vote is null and void, and who advises the membership of the revote, and how are they advised? The Association's next regular board meeting is in January and the next general membership meeting is in March. What sectoin of RONR deals with this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jstackpo Posted December 16, 2012 at 09:22 AM Report Share Posted December 16, 2012 at 09:22 AM Does a special meeting of the board of the directors have to be called to declare the vote null and void? If not, then how is it put forth that the vote is null and void, and who advises the membership of the revote, and how are they advised? The Association's next regular board meeting is in January and the next general membership meeting is in March. What sectoin of RONR deals with this?No, the Board is not involved at all - only the assembly of the general membership - the "voting body" - can entertain the point of order, do the declaration of nullity, and complete the election. p. 444-446.The notification that this all will come up is the responsibility of whoever regularly prepares meeting announcements, presumably the Secretary. If the bylaws allow it, you could have a Special Meeting of the assembly - the general membership - before March. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Guest Posted December 16, 2012 at 01:31 PM Report Share Posted December 16, 2012 at 01:31 PM Just to make sure I understand correctly, the secretary must send out a notice to the general membership stating that at the election there were ballots taken of members who may not have been in good standing and the vote must be retaken? Then, at the meeting a point of order must be raised (improper balloting procedure?) and the point of order must be voted on? Once the point of order is passed, then a declaration of nullity must be made and then the vote is redone. Is that how its done? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jstackpo Posted December 16, 2012 at 01:56 PM Report Share Posted December 16, 2012 at 01:56 PM Almost....The Sec doesn't have to be overly specific but at least say what is going to happen in the call, but not all the whys -- they can be brought up, as necessary, in the (more private) meeting.Go read the RONR sections on point of order and appeals (p. 247 - 260) for all the details, but in essence...1) Someone raises the point of order that the election procedure was bad and the election IS (not "should be") void. 2) The chair rules on the point -- NO VOTE at this point. If the chair agrees that "the point is well taken" and nothing else happens that is the end of it -- go on to re-do the election. Or if the ruling was that "the point is not well taken" and nothing happens you do nothing at all: no re-vote, the previous election stands and the person remains in office.Otherwise...3) Someone (anyone) - optionally - appeals the ruling of the chair. Debate on the correctness of the chair's ruling is followed by a majority vote. That vote ends the discussion. You either go on to do nothing at all (the election was OK after all, and the person stays in office) , or re-do the election. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David A Foulkes Posted December 16, 2012 at 02:03 PM Report Share Posted December 16, 2012 at 02:03 PM 3) Someone (anyone) - optionally - appeals the ruling of the chair.And just for clarification's sake for Guest_phyllis, or Guest_VaNxHC, or Guest_2HEHah, or Guest_Guest, the appeal does require a second. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Lages Posted December 16, 2012 at 08:03 PM Report Share Posted December 16, 2012 at 08:03 PM And just for more clarification - if guest_guest is the same as guest Phyllis Toohey, or at least is someone in guest Phyllis Toohey's organization - why are you saying that "there were ballots taken of members who may not have been in good standing..." when guest Phyllis Toohey stated that "two people voted who were not members in good standing." Is there some uncertainty about this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Edgar Posted December 16, 2012 at 08:09 PM Report Share Posted December 16, 2012 at 08:09 PM Is there some uncertainty about this?I guess that's what points of order, rulings, and appeals are for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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