number of pages in a bylaws (aka too long)

[rynait]

Hello,

 

I think you and the membership will be a lot happier if you simply forget about suspending the rules.

 

That was the source of legal entanglement last six months, (clearly source of confusion or miscommunication).   

This "too many page and split" statement did get my pants down.

 

This 'forgetting' suggestion would result in re-inventing the wheel with  " too many pages ".

 

Much wiser to explain then accept. rather than leave matters to ignorance.    

 

R

[Kim Goldsworthy]

 

. . .  and the board is not supposed to

suspend any rules in the bylaws.

 

. . .I am going to find out how much does membership understand the difference between rule(s) that can be

suspend and hard-fixing the rule(s). 

. . .

Suspension is not the origin of the problem addressed here.

 

Me thinkest thou protest too much

regarding the motion To Suspend The Rules.

 

***

 

Reminder.

The motion "To Suspend The Rules" has no lasting effect beyond adjournment.

 

Example:

 

If a board were to meet from 8:00 PM to 10:00 PM on a Wednesday night,

and if there is a rule which the board suspends,

then the suspension's effect ends at 10:01 PM, i.e., at adjournment.

The board cannot suspend a rule so that the suspension continues beyond 10:01 PM.

 

***

[rynait]

Hello, 

 

as stated, 

Me thinkest thou protest too much

regarding the motion To Suspend The Rules.

 

***

 

Reminder.

The motion "To Suspend The Rules" has no lasting effect beyond adjournment.

 

Example:

 

If a board were to meet from 8:00 PM to 10:00 PM on a Wednesday night,

and if there is a rule which the board suspends,

then the suspension's effect ends at 10:01 PM, i.e., at adjournment.

The board cannot suspend a rule so that the suspension continues beyond 10:01 PM.

 

***

 

board can not suspend bylaws rules. 

 

R

[Josh Martin]

Suspension is not the origin of the problem addressed here. the origin addressing is too many pages and splitting the bylaws.

I am trying to comprehend why parlimentarian suggest this is necessary thing (should have been encouragement or recommendation).

It is now clear from discussion that i conclude with

multiple page bylaws is fine It is membership decision to what is in there. and the board is not supposed to suspend any rules in the bylaws.

at later times, next meetings I am going to find out how much does membership understand the difference between rule(s) that can be suspend and hard-fixing the rule(s).

Well, we are making progress. I am in complete agreement that while it is advisable to place many of the administrative rules in a separate document from the bylaws so that they may be more easily amended, it is by no means necessary to do so. If a society wants all of its rules in its bylaws, it may do so.

I would not, however, make a categorical statement that the board cannot suspend rules in the bylaws. As noted, rules in the bylaws may not be suspended unless they are in the nature of a rule of order or the bylaws provide for the rule's suspension. I would certainly suggest that the idea that a board can suspend a rule adopted by the society must be met with some scrutiny. Some rules (even if the rules is in the nature of a rule of order and the suspension is limited to the context of a board meeting) may well be adopted with the intent that they cannot suspended by the board, but I would not necessarily say that this is always the case, particularly if the society has a habit of putting all of its rules in the bylaws. Not all rules which are outside of the bylaws can necessarily be suspended by the board either.

[Kim Goldsworthy]

board can not suspend bylaws rules. 

 

* Yes, a board can suspend rules in the bylaws, if they are parliamentary in nature.

* No, a board a cannot suspend rules in the bylaws, if the rules are administrative in nature.

Page 17 of RONR says so.

 

Rules of order

―whether contained in the parliamentary authority

or adopted as special rules of order―

can be suspended by a two-thirds vote

as explained in 25 (with the exceptions there specified). 

Rules clearly identifiable as in the nature of rules of order

that are placed within the bylaws

can (with the same exceptions) also be suspended

by a two-thirds vote;

but, except for

such rules

and

for clauses that provide for their own suspension, as stated above,

bylaws cannot be suspended.

 

[rynait]

Hello, 

 

The supsicion this "page-split" that might relate to segregating the rules (rule of order, structural, administrative, etc) and/or suspending rule is unproven.

 

This is because there was no complications (with rule of order), or any motion to suspend was made in prior minutes of this organization. [there is complications that involved with calling a board meeting, and there was no rule in the bylaws for that]

 

Alas, I recently inquired whether there was proposal for seperate instrument, and there was none. 

 

So the "page-split" statement is probably president's way or means to forcefully convince membership to "blindly" adopt the 2014 proposed bylaws which was a do-over that does take membership's rights away. 

 

Therefore,  there are no rules, necessary action, or requirement that dicaties on how long (or many pages) bylaw should be. But proper rule seperation into instruments is encouraged, assuming membership is able to understand the differences and adopt accordingly. 

 

R

[Edgar Guest]

But proper rule separation into instruments is encouraged, assuming membership is able to understand the differences and adopt accordingly. 

 

I think that might be something we can all agree on.