Tom Morelock Posted May 5, 2015 at 12:24 AM Report Share Posted May 5, 2015 at 12:24 AM Our Bylaws say that in order to amend them, the proposed amendments have to be mailed out to the entire membership and a 2/3 vote of ballets received is required to pass. they also say that both pro and con sides should be included if their is any. Other than that, there is no other stipulations. when i was President i appointed a bylaws committee who would make recommendations to the Board, then the Board would give their recommendations to the membership via the mailing mentioned above who would then vote on them. was this the right way to do this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Lages Posted May 5, 2015 at 01:27 AM Report Share Posted May 5, 2015 at 01:27 AM If your first sentence is an accurate and complete description of what your bylaws require for their amendment, then that, and only that, is the right way to do it. While the introduction of a bylaws committee and recommendation through the board will not negate this process, they are not required for the assembly to consider and adopt any bylaw amendments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest L. Stevens Posted May 12, 2015 at 09:55 AM Report Share Posted May 12, 2015 at 09:55 AM Our Bylaws state the same requirement, although it is a 2/3 vote at our Convention. A problem has arisen, in that, a Bylaw voted on last year, is incorrectly worded from the previous Parliamentarian. A motion on the same Bylaw has been proposed this year, but has nothing to do with the wording being incorrect in the Bylaw as it stands right now. How do you correct an error, properly, using Robert's Rules? The error was not caught in time to notify the membership for this year's voting. I have been told that we CAN NOT correct the wording this year. That it has to be proposed again next year, but in doing that, it changes the rules for a specific officer in a drastic way, requiring much more work and time commitment. In doing some research, I'm thinking we can suspend the rules temporarily, back up and get the wording correct, then move forward with this year's proposed change. Is this the correct way to handle this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Honemann Posted May 12, 2015 at 10:06 AM Report Share Posted May 12, 2015 at 10:06 AM Our Bylaws state the same requirement, although it is a 2/3 vote at our Convention. A problem has arisen, in that, a Bylaw voted on last year, is incorrectly worded from the previous Parliamentarian. A motion on the same Bylaw has been proposed this year, but has nothing to do with the wording being incorrect in the Bylaw as it stands right now. How do you correct an error, properly, using Robert's Rules? The error was not caught in time to notify the membership for this year's voting. I have been told that we CAN NOT correct the wording this year. That it has to be proposed again next year, but in doing that, it changes the rules for a specific officer in a drastic way, requiring much more work and time commitment. In doing some research, I'm thinking we can suspend the rules temporarily, back up and get the wording correct, then move forward with this year's proposed change. Is this the correct way to handle this? I don't know what you mean when you say that "A problem has arisen, in that, a Bylaw voted on last year, is incorrectly worded from the previous Parliamentarian." In any event, if an amendment to the bylaws has been adopted, no matter how worded, then the only way to change the wording is to amend the bylaws again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L. Stevens Posted May 12, 2015 at 10:35 AM Report Share Posted May 12, 2015 at 10:35 AM OK. But can we amend from the floor THIS year, without the advanced notification. Let me see if I can reword the situation. We changed a Bylaw, last year. The Parliamentarian did not keep the changes we had voted on, and instead, "made up" what she thought was discussed and voted on. No one caught this, until a new proposed change to the same Bylaw came up this year. If the wording is not corrected, it will add a huge burden to the duties of the incoming officer. I would like to get it corrected before handing the office off to someone else. There has to be a way to correct this, THIS year! Since we can't propose a new amendment from the floor, due to the notification requirement, I am looking for a way to do this. I just noticed a procedure called "Amend Something Previously Adopted". How can this be introduced from the floor? I would assume we would need to make a motion to Amend Something Previously Adopted, state the reason for the proposal, get a majority vote to do so, correct the wording, then get a vote to approve the corrected wording? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Honemann Posted May 12, 2015 at 10:58 AM Report Share Posted May 12, 2015 at 10:58 AM OK. But can we amend from the floor THIS year, without the advanced notification. Let me see if I can reword the situation. We changed a Bylaw, last year. The Parliamentarian did not keep the changes we had voted on, and instead, "made up" what she thought was discussed and voted on. No one caught this, until a new proposed change to the same Bylaw came up this year. If the wording is not corrected, it will add a huge burden to the duties of the incoming officer. I would like to get it corrected before handing the office off to someone else. There has to be a way to correct this, THIS year! Since we can't propose a new amendment from the floor, due to the notification requirement, I am looking for a way to do this. I just noticed a procedure called "Amend Something Previously Adopted". How can this be introduced from the floor? I would assume we would need to make a motion to Amend Something Previously Adopted, state the reason for the proposal, get a majority vote to do so, correct the wording, then get a vote to approve the corrected wording? The only way to amend your bylaws is to follow the procedure prescribed in them for their amendment. If this procedure requires previous notice (which it should), then they cannot be amended without first giving such notice. I still have no idea what the parliamentarian has to do with any of this. What counts is what you adopted, not what the parliamentarian kept, didn't keep, or made up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L. Stevens Posted May 12, 2015 at 11:38 AM Report Share Posted May 12, 2015 at 11:38 AM She changed the wording of a Bylaw we had voted on! What she put into our Bylaws, is incorrect. It was not what was voted on and passed. I don't know how to make that any clearer. We voted to amend a Bylaw. What we voted on, was not what our Parliamentarian put into our updated Bylaws. Our Parliamentarian is in charge of updating the Bylaws as they change. Last year, she did not keep a correct copy of what was changed. Nor did she get a copy to the Recording Secretary, who ALSO did not get the correct wording. So in effect, the Bylaw change we voted on and approved, is null and void and we are stuck with what the Parliamentarian decided to put into the Bylaws. Surely, there is a way to correct an error that was made in the Bylaws without having to wait another year? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jstackpo Posted May 12, 2015 at 11:47 AM Report Share Posted May 12, 2015 at 11:47 AM If you can demonstrate & supply the exact text of what was really adopted (hopefully in the minutes of the meeting) that is the proof of what should be in the bylaws. Then just fix them. Then fire the parliamentarian and get a new Recording Secretary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Honemann Posted May 12, 2015 at 12:06 PM Report Share Posted May 12, 2015 at 12:06 PM She changed the wording of a Bylaw we had voted on! What she put into our Bylaws, is incorrect. It was not what was voted on and passed. I don't know how to make that any clearer. We voted to amend a Bylaw. What we voted on, was not what our Parliamentarian put into our updated Bylaws. Our Parliamentarian is in charge of updating the Bylaws as they change. Last year, she did not keep a correct copy of what was changed. Nor did she get a copy to the Recording Secretary, who ALSO did not get the correct wording. So in effect, the Bylaw change we voted on and approved, is null and void and we are stuck with what the Parliamentarian decided to put into the Bylaws. Surely, there is a way to correct an error that was made in the Bylaws without having to wait another year? No, the bylaw change you voted on and approved is not null and void. Any different version is null and void. The way to solve the problem is to correct the minutes when they are presented for approval. If the minutes have already been approved, it has already been decided that they correctly state what was adopted. If a member never-the-less believes that the minutes are in error, he can move to amend them. The assembly will then decide whether or not it made a mistake when it approved the minutes as they now stand. Unless and until this happens, the bylaws have been amended as reflected in the approved minutes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L. Stevens Posted May 12, 2015 at 01:30 PM Report Share Posted May 12, 2015 at 01:30 PM ok, THERE! That was what I was looking for. Yes, the Minutes have already been approved by committee, but the Bylaw is still incorrect. The original Bylaw was amended on the floor. Changes were made through discussion, and written down on my copy of the proposed changes. ( I was the mover), when all discussion was made and the changes were voted on, I gave those changes to the Parliamentarian to record the new Bylaw. I did not keep a copy for myself. Now how the Rec. Sec. didn't get it correct, I don't know. She should have had her recorder on or taking shorthand or something, but she asked the Parliamentarian, MONTHS after our convention, for a copy of those changes, but by then, the Parliamentarian had thrown that sheet out, or otherwise lost it! I had no idea there was a problem with it, nor did I think to review the minutes before they were approved, I had no reason to think there was a problem. I only realized the mistake, when the new Parliamentarian presented changes for this year. I am the State News Bulletin Editor and any new proposed Bylaw or Standing Rule changes must be printed in our publication and posted on our web site. So when I saw another proposed change to the same Bylaw, and read the "currently reads", I realized, the wording had been changed from what we had voted on. Thus, how do we correct it! So, in summary: We must move to amend the Minutes, and then that will correct the Bylaw. @ JD - our offices are only for one year, but I'm beginning to think the Parliamentarian should be a two year Office. Ok, that answers my question completely. Sorry for the confusion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L. Stevens Posted May 12, 2015 at 01:36 PM Report Share Posted May 12, 2015 at 01:36 PM And I am quoting you Daniel in my debate notes to amend the minutes! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Honemann Posted May 12, 2015 at 01:39 PM Report Share Posted May 12, 2015 at 01:39 PM No, the bylaw change you voted on and approved is not null and void. Any different version is null and void. The way to solve the problem is to correct the minutes when they are presented for approval. If the minutes have already been approved, it has already been decided that they correctly state what was adopted. If a member never-the-less believes that the minutes are in error, he can move to amend them. The assembly will then decide whether or not it made a mistake when it approved the minutes as they now stand. Unless and until this happens, the bylaws have been amended as reflected in the approved minutes. ok, THERE! That was what I was looking for. Yes, the Minutes have already been approved by committee, but the Bylaw is still incorrect. The original Bylaw was amended on the floor. Changes were made through discussion, and written down on my copy of the proposed changes. ( I was the mover), when all discussion was made and the changes were voted on, I gave those changes to the Parliamentarian to record the new Bylaw. I did not keep a copy for myself. Now how the Rec. Sec. didn't get it correct, I don't know. She should have had her recorder on or taking shorthand or something, but she asked the Parliamentarian, MONTHS after our convention, for a copy of those changes, but by then, the Parliamentarian had thrown that sheet out, or otherwise lost it! I had no idea there was a problem with it, nor did I think to review the minutes before they were approved, I had no reason to think there was a problem. I only realized the mistake, when the new Parliamentarian presented changes for this year. I am the State News Bulletin Editor and any new proposed Bylaw or Standing Rule changes must be printed in our publication and posted on our web site. So when I saw another proposed change to the same Bylaw, and read the "currently reads", I realized, the wording had been changed from what we had voted on. Thus, how do we correct it! So, in summary: We must move to amend the Minutes, and then that will correct the Bylaw. @ JD - our offices are only for one year, but I'm beginning to think the Parliamentarian should be a two year Office. Ok, that answers my question completely. Sorry for the confusion. Read Section 35 in RONR carefully concerning how to go about amending previously approved minutes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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