Minutes

[Guest Samantha]

Hello, at our first meeting our board approved our budget; at our next meeting a member objected to having approved the budget at the earlier meeting, stating that Roberts' Rules required 7 days notice and only 5 had been given. He further requested a vote to delete the approval of the budget at the earlier meeting and then a new vote was taken to pass the budget (again) at this second meeting.

I am helping as acting secretary and unsure how to proceed. My sense is that the first minutes remain unchanged, reflecting the actions of the board which included passing the budget. And that the second set of minutes reflect a "motion for reconsideration as a result of procedural errors for insufficient notice on the budget".  Then the minutes reflect that the budget was passed again. Any help would be appreciated. Thank you, Samantha

 

 

[Richard Brown]

For openers, there is no rule in RONR (the newest edition of Robert's Rules of Order) requiring seven days notice for approval of a budget or, for that matter, for anything else.  The  member is mistaken.  He was entitled to make a motion to rescind or amend the previous approval of the budget, but, without previous notice, that motion would require a two thirds vote or the vote of a majority of the entire membership.  If this is a board,  the term "majority of the entire membership" would refer to the membership of the board, not of the entire organization.

Technically, this  was not a "reconsideration" of the adoption of the budget as a motion to reconsider would most likely have had to be made on the same day that the budget was approved.  It looks to me like this was treated as a motion to rescind the previous adoption and then a motion to approve it again.

You are correct that the minutes of the previous meeting should not be changed. Personally, I would treat what happened as a motion to rescind the previous approval of the budget and then a motion to approve it again, but, as a practical matter, you could also probably treat it as motion to ratify the previous adoption.  I don't think it actually hurts anything to call  it a reconsideration, as you did, even though that is not the proper term for it, because it does also seem to reflect what happened (even though reconsideration was out of order).  Apparently, nobody raised a point of order that a motion to reconsider was out of order.   If the member never called it a motion to reconsider but called it a motion to rescind, then treat it as a motion to rescind.  That would have been the proper motion to accomplish what he was trying to do... even though he was mistaken in thinking that it required seven days' advance notice.  Do your own rules perhaps require seven days' notice?  RONR does not.

I would say that the important thing is that the minutes reflect that, regardless of what you call it, the budget was again approved.

Stay tuned.  Others may have different ideas on how you should treat this in the minutes.

 

Edited August 12, 2018 at 08:37 PM by Richard Brown
Corrected typo

[jstackpo]

There is no rule in RONR requiring ANY notice for the introduction or adoption of motions in general.  Perhaps your association rules has such  --  best to check.

However, all the improper steps are water over the dam (or under the bridge, or wherever it goes) and since nobody raised a point of order at the time of the infractions, you should just put in the minutes what happened as you proposed, except don't say "reconsidered", unless a member actually moved that  --  it would be out of order, too, anyway.

Rest easy, your budget has been properly adopted.  Now don't go spend all your money in the same place, as you mother told you.

Mr. Brown types faster that I, and types more for that matter - he is all correct.

[Guest Zev]

Check your bylaws and see if there is a seven day notice requirement. The rules in this book say no such thing.

If there is no such requirement in the bylaws then the adoption of the budget is a done deal. Any modification to it must be done via a motion to Amend Something Previously Adopted, with a majority vote if notice is given or a two-thirds vote without notice.

If there is such a requirement in the bylaws then a Point Of Order that the adoption did not fulfill the bylaw requirement and the presiding officer's ruling that the adoption is void is all that is necessary. A new notice and motion to adopt the budget would follow. No motion for Reconsideration is needed.

No changes to any meeting minutes. They reflect what actually happened. I think I got this right.

[Guest Who's Coming to Dinner]

The latter minutes should say a point of order was raised that adoption of the budget was null and void because proper notice was not given, and that the point was well-taken. Then they should say that the budget motion was renewed and adopted (or rejected, if that was the case). Whether the point of order should have been raised or well-taken is now moot.

[Richard Brown]

40 minutes ago, Guest Who's Coming to Dinner said:

The latter minutes should say a point of order was raised that adoption of the budget was null and void because proper notice was not given, and that the point was well-taken. Then they should say that the budget motion was renewed and adopted (or rejected, if that was the case). Whether the point of order should have been raised or well-taken is now moot.

The way I read the original post, no point of order was ever made.  Instead, the person who was objecting made a motion to set aside the previous approval and then a motion to approve it again..

[Dan Honemann]

14 hours ago, Guest Samantha said:

Hello, at our first meeting our board approved our budget; at our next meeting a member objected to having approved the budget at the earlier meeting, stating that Roberts' Rules required 7 days notice and only 5 had been given. 

As previously noted, this is nonsense. Your board may be operating under rules which require such notice, but there is no such requirement in Robert's Rules.

 

14 hours ago, Guest Samantha said:

He further requested a vote to delete the approval of the budget at the earlier meeting and then a new vote was taken to pass the budget (again) at this second meeting.

I am helping as acting secretary and unsure how to proceed. My sense is that the first minutes remain unchanged, reflecting the actions of the board which included passing the budget. And that the second set of minutes reflect a "motion for reconsideration as a result of procedural errors for insufficient notice on the budget".  Then the minutes reflect that the budget was passed again. Any help would be appreciated. Thank you, Samantha

Just as the minutes of the first meeting should reflect exactly what actions were taken by the board at that meeting, the minutes of the second meeting should state exactly the wording used by the chair when putting to a vote the question on the member's request (RONR, 11th ed., p. 44, ll. 19-24; p. 469, ll. 10-21). It is not the secretary's job to characterize this motion in any way, such as referring to it as a motion to reconsider, or to rescind, or to ratify, and it is certainly not the secretary's job to reword it in some way in order for it to make more sense. Have your minutes reflect exactly the wording of the motion or motions voted on, as used by the chair when putting them to a vote.