How do we handle this?

[CB2]

So we have a member that is going to receive a disciplinary letter which will be finalized at a meeting, down the road. Removal of said person from the board.

However, we don't think they will come to that meeting. How is that handled if they don't show?

We know they have a right to vote for themselves to stay of the board. When they are disciplined they also aren't allowed to do anything board related until the appeal is finalized.  What are the proper steps for this?

Also, the board member lives in another state than the meeting place. All flights are usually paid for by the Association, are we still supposed to pay for a flight for this person? 

CB2

[Chris Harrison]

1 hour ago, CB2 said:

So we have a member that is going to receive a disciplinary letter which will be finalized at a meeting, down the road. Removal of said person from the board.

However, we don't think they will come to that meeting. How is that handled if they don't show?

RONR doesn't say (though your Bylaws should) but I don't think you can go wrong in sending it by Registered Mail to the member with a requirement it be signed for as proof it was received.

Quote

We know they have a right to vote for themselves to stay of the board. When they are disciplined they also aren't allowed to do anything board related until the appeal is finalized.  What are the proper steps for this?

The details on how this "Appeal" is conducted should be in your Bylaws.

Quote

Also, the board member lives in another state than the meeting place. All flights are usually paid for by the Association, are we still supposed to pay for a flight for this person? 

Again those details should be located in the organization's rules.

[jstackpo]

8 hours ago, CB2 said:

So we have a member that is going to receive a disciplinary letter...

If you haven't already, give a close reading to Chapter XX, particularly starting on page 654. It pretty well covers all the steps, if your bylaws don't.

Edited September 14, 2019 at 09:20 AM by jstackpo

[Josh Martin]

13 hours ago, jstackpo said:

If you haven't already, give a close reading to Chapter XX, particularly starting on page 654. It pretty well covers all the steps, if your bylaws don't.

Yes, but I don’t think Ch. XX answers any of the OP’s specific questions.

RONR does not describe the process of “finalizing a disciplinary letter,” It has no appeal process for discipline, and it has nothing regarding who pays for flights.

[Atul Kapur]

1 hour ago, Josh Martin said:

Yes, but I don’t think Ch. XX answers any of the OP’s specific questions.

Well, it does say that until the discipline is imposed, the member retains their rights. So, presumably, at this stage the member would still be entitled to have their flight paid for.

[Josh Martin]

On 9/14/2019 at 6:54 PM, Atul Kapur said:

Well, it does say that until the discipline is imposed, the member retains their rights. So, presumably, at this stage the member would still be entitled to have their flight paid for.

I would not make this presumption based upon the facts presided, since all that we have been told so far is that flights are usually paid for by the Association. I do not know whether this is merely a custom, or if there is in fact a rule granting members a right to have their flights paid for by the association (and if the latter, whether there are some circumstances where this rule does not apply, since it is only “usually” and not “always”).

[Atul Kapur]

Not sure why we're picking this particular nit, but...

I acknowledged that it was a presumption by use of the word "presumably". Presumption is, at least in this case, based on probability, and the word "usually" was enough for me to determine that it was more probable than not.

I did not make a definitive pronouncement because that would have been presumptuous.

And, reverting to parliamentary questions, even if there was not a rule, the removal of an entitlement that is given by custom would still amount to discipline, which has not yet been decided / imposed.

[Josh Martin]

3 hours ago, Atul Kapur said:

And, reverting to parliamentary questions, even if there was not a rule, the removal of an entitlement that is given by custom would still amount to discipline, which has not yet been decided / imposed.

I disagree. If it is merely customary to provide flights to members, the assembly may deviate from this custom in a particular case by majority vote. No disciplinary procedures are required.

[Atul Kapur]

3 hours ago, Josh Martin said:

the assembly may deviate from this custom in a particular case by majority vote.

Even if it's retroactive? In this case the motion would be considered at the meeting to which the member has already flown.

And even if it's not retroactive, you're suggesting that a motion to remove travel reimbursement from one member only would not be seen as disciplinary?

[Josh Martin]

14 hours ago, Atul Kapur said:

Even if it's retroactive? In this case the motion would be considered at the meeting to which the member has already flown.

And even if it's not retroactive, you're suggesting that a motion to remove travel reimbursement from one member only would not be seen as disciplinary?

If it is merely a custom to reimburse members for their flights, no rule in RONR prevents the assembly from deviating from this custom in a particular case, even if the flight has already occurred.

I have no disagreement that a motion to remove travel reimbursement for a particular member is “disciplinary” in a more general sense of the word, but it does not require formal disciplinary procedures to take such an action. A custom, in my view, is not sufficient to create a right which may be removed only through disciplinary procedures.

Edited September 17, 2019 at 01:15 PM by Josh Martin

[CB2]

Thank you for all the information. They resigned from the board so the situation took care of its self.  

 

CB2

 

[Atul Kapur]

Until the next time.
I would take this as an opportunity to clarify and remove any ambiguity before the next time it happens again. (as an analogy, using the time you visited the emergency department for chest pain as an opportunity to finally backup the computer; update your file of important documents, e-documents, and passwords; stop smoking, etc, even though they didn't find anything dangerous during the visit.)

[CB2]

So very true!